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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - 1500 Maing bearings

Hi all, some advice needed. When I dismantled my engine the main bearing cap bolts did not carry any washers yet on the parts illustration in the Moss catalogue there is a washer shown. Any opinions?
thanks,
Nick
Nick Nakorn

No washers on mine either Nick. The advice is if it is running before taking apart then put it back exactly as it was.
I tried to put my bearing caps on the way they should be instead of the way they were. Eventually I installed them one at a time and checked the engine would turn each time I put one back. If the engine would not turn I reversed the cap and all sorted.
I haven't put any threadlocker on mine either just torqued it up as per the spec. Its my first attempt and approx. 4000 miles later I am still smiling.

Good luck. Dave
Dave Squire 1500

Dave, with such narrow heads I expect the lack of washers might help prevent the bolts from loosening yet I do wonder about the lack of spread load across the face of the caps. I think perhaps these engines originally ran without washers (hence the shorter bolts) and at some point someone decided to run them with washers and so the bolts are now a tad longer. I would like to have seen a tabbed washer or a more sophisticated bolt-head (The big end bolts look excellent).

Anyone else feel strongly either way? I'm also thinking about drilling the heads of the bolts and using lock-wire as we used to do years ago - does anyone do that anymore?
Nick Nakorn

Another vote for no washers here. Just checked pictures of my rebuild and nothing.

If you were to add washers you would have to find some fancy xxx strength, hardened washers of some description. They are not fasteners you want mushy washers underneath ruining you torque reading.

Cheers,
Malcolm.
M Le Chevalier

The A series guys have tab washers on their mains and big ends.
I have looked in several catalogues and online and the answer seems it varies.
For instance Haynes shows washers on the mains and Sussex does not.
In this case I would normally ring Greg at Sussex and ask.
However I worked on the put it back as it was principle so I didn't ask. Ignorance is bliss it would seem. Mine is going fine.
BTW the 4000 is on a daily use car basis and has been done in the last 9 months. My header pic is a bit out of date.
Dave Squire 1500

Well, it seems we're all right - depending....

I've now just come back from Moss Europe and have spoken to their expert who has built over 40 1500 Triumph engines and he confirms that the bolts as supplied by Moss should be used in conjunction with the thick tempered spring washers they also supply. He has built engines both with and without and we agreed that the bolts for use without washers are different. I think this might be to do with the comparative lack of stretch in the new bolts (they're bright plated so comparatively non-stretch) while the originals I took off the car are black steel, much like a stretch stud and similar to the use-once big-end bolts in colour but without the widened head. So I think we now have a reliable answer. If the bolts are non-stretch, use washers as supplied for use with those bolts, otherwise don't bother.. being belt-and-braces I'll use the washers and some Loctite... Many thanks for your help everyone, Cheers chaps!
Nick Nakorn

Nick,

Are you saying that you have the bolts that are not intended to use washers, and your idea of belts and suspenders it to add washers to bolts that don't use them? If that is your thinking, I hope your pants don't fall off!

Charley
C R Huff

Hi Charley, no - I had already bought their bolts and now I've bought the washers that go with them. Since taking the washers out of the packet I've not bothered with the Loctite because the washers are really pretty heftily sprung.
Nick
Nick Nakorn

Okay NIck. I get it now.

Charley
C R Huff

Dave,
While the old girl is apart increase the diameter of the oil gallery to the #2 bearing. A big weak link in the 1500, you can Google up a bunch on this issue especially on the Spitfire boards.
Bob Ketcham

Bob, while I thought about that modification and intended to do it (having read it's essential), I was persuaded by the machine shop I use that it wasn't required as the gallery in my engine was near as damn-it to that diameter already and it would have entailed sorting out the bush that's in the way and so-on. I trust the machine shop as they have been doing old Brit engines for 80 years and say they very, very rarely see the problems that the modification is meant to solve. I will, however, fit an oil-cooler.
Nick Nakorn

It was on the engine while it was still in the car Bob so no could do at the time. However have second engine that I am supposed to be working on now that I intend to do the oily upgrade to and the other simple make it up to 100hp stuff like on the triumph boards.

SWMBO unfortunately intervened 6 weeks ago and so I am now converting our house for extended family sharing with the boy, his wife and three boys under 3 and a half so I can live in a rabbit hutch. (or in the workshop with one of the midges) :-)

That's interesting Nick. Its worth measuring before carrying out the work then.

Cheers, Dave
Dave Squire 1500

I can't remember who I spoke to at the time of my rebuild who also said the oil gallery mod isn't totally essential unless you are racing... think it might of been rachmacb. I didn't bother, time will tell if bites me in the ass.

Fit a thermostatically controlled oil cooler and all should be merry I think!

Dave, what spec are you planning for your rebuild?

Malcolm
M Le Chevalier

This thread was discussed between 21/04/2014 and 28/04/2014

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