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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Clutch clunk crunch

Just got lucky and unlucky I think. Pulled onto the drive after returning from work, opened the garage door pushed down the clutch pedal to drive in and there was a clunk as if something broke and the car stalled. The pedal is now really light but everything moves including the clutch fork. I haven't lost any fluid, all pivot pins are in tact and I can feel the clutch fork in the bell housing move. I'm thinking either the fork pivot bolt or thrust bearing has broken or come loose, has anyone got any tips to have a peek without removing the engine just to see what's going on.
Andy
Andy Potter

Remove the top rubber bung revealing the inspection hole (under the heater & battery shelf), and you can position a mirror and shine a torch at it and see in.
David Smith

You'll probably get a better view via the port on the passenger side opposite the port for the yoke. If someone can operate the clutch for you - you should be able to determine the condition of the thrust bearing.
Alan
Alan Anstead

I dont know about this... (the peddle got light) to me that dosnt sound like the carbon fell off the thrust bearing thinggy very common btw

id be tempted to actually remove the clevis pin at the peddle arm and inspect it for a oval hole and a badly groved clevis pin or the spring has gone bad somebow... i know a few in the ppast that the housing ovled so badly it was like a 2nd hole was drilled and thur off the entire operation

I say pull the clevis pin because sitting on top of your head in the footwelll with low light the clevis pin and housing hole may appear to look just fine

When you start it up... any nojse and gravel sounds inside the bell housing


just my 2 cents

prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Prop, there is a slight tinkling noise as if the bearing is dangling on the shaft. Not had a chance to have a proper look yet though.
Andy Potter

Had a look inside the bell housing today using a cheap endoscope off Amazon. It appears that the thrust bearing is in tact and moves freely so my conclusion is that the diaphragm spring has broken in some way. I have been pricing up replacement units and they vary from almost £200 to £70 ish for an aftermarket alternative. Does anyone know what the difference really is and the best place to buy from?
Andy Potter

Andy

Sorry friend... ive been here 15 years on the bbs almost everyday ... i can not recall a thread where the diapbram spring broke on a 1275....thats not to say it cant.

id keep looking before you spend a weekend pulling the engine

did you pull the clevice pin and peddle assembly for an actual eyes on part look

id also look inside the master and the slave for some issues

based on what your discribing... i just dont think the problem is inside the bell housing

lete at least hope im right... if i am... ill hold my gloating (i told you so so ) to only 3 times... but 5 times if on friday....haha

best wishings

prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

A tinkling sound from the clutch can be the clutch cover pressure pad. The pad is held against the diaphragm fingers by a collar that is swaged from the rear of the pad. The swaging wears away and the two parts loosen and tinkle. In extremis they part company and can shift causing engagement problems. The two parts can be tack welded back together but, of course, to confirm and rectify the engine will have to come out.
Alan
Alan Anstead

There is a genuine original new AP clutch cover on flea bay for £30 (buy it now)currently, plus £6.00 p+p item no 361696061165. You will need to source a driven plate and possibly a release bearing.
Bob Beaumont

I've had 1275 diaphragms break a couple of times, due to a badly designed after market device within my Ford gearbox fitting sessions a few years back

That was caused by uneven pressure during operation and probably has nothing to do with your normal Spridget's operation

So not a lot of help sorry :(
Bill sdgpM

Not a Spridget but a friends B suffered a cracked drive disc which allowed the splined centre spigot to spin and hence no drive.

Doug Plumb

All, thanks for the comments, it sounds like I may be the victim of cheap parts! I have video of the release bearing moving freely and pushing the centre ring Alan described, the movement looks more than enough to release the clutch. Now there is no resistance to the hydraulics, and I did hear quite a sharp cracking when it went. The clutch has been in about 5 years but only low mileage, 2.5 k per year. Although it was new I don't remember paying anywhere near £200 so cheapo after market job. I don't mind paying the higher price if it is better quality.
Andy Potter

You won't find much better than the NOS Borg & Beck one on ebay highlighted by Bob below. I'm surprised it hasn't already been snapped up.
David Smith

Yes looks ok, should have mentioned mine is a 1098 though. :)
Andy Potter

On a 1098 clutch there are 3 levers that work against 6 springs. Sometimes one of the levers fractures then no clutch.

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

there is a genuine original AP clutch also on flea bay no 201649556991 with a buy it now for £16! plus £12.00 postage.The quality will not be bettered
Bob Beaumont

Sorry should have said its for a 1098!
Bob Beaumont

Andy... i

good luck pulling it... luckly its not a tough job to pull the engine a d put it back in ... hopefully you wont miss very much of the driving fall weather season

i cant wait for the colorful falling of the leaves .. top down nip in the air chill, cooking food on the exhauste manifold food while driving thur the dead leaves and .. hot tea in the picnik basket strapped to the rear boot lid.....LIVING !

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Good spot Bob :)
Andy Potter

Go for it Andy. It's a bargain.

Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

Any update?
Alan Anstead

Alan, yes I've purchased the clutch off eBay that Bob spotted which has now arrived so I plan to get the engine out sometime later this week as I'm off work this week. Have to juggle it with painting the house LOL. I'll post some pictures when I discover the exact problem. Cheers, Andy
Andy Potter

Well. I told you it was broken...
Removed the engine only as I thought this might save some time. Which it did until I tried to put it back in! Gave up as dinner was ready and I intend to take the gearbox out tomorrow and put both back in together. I just cos get the bottom pulley past the cross member, previously I've always removed engine and gearbox as one, and I was worried about damaging gearbox shaft, maybe I'm missing a trick?

Andy Potter

I just looked on eBay and boy that was a bargain clutch. Even came with friction disc and release bearing, and Borg & Beck too.

Good luck taking the gearbox out on it's own. Drain the gearbox first, I know it's an obvious thing to say but I didn't and when it got jammed between the front panel and bulkhead all the oil spilled out the back before I could call for a helping hand. Took ages to clean up!!!


Rob
Rob aka MG Moneypit

Cheers Rob, the smell of gearbox seems to linger forever too. :)
Andy Potter

Andy

i couldnt pull the photo up ... welcome to sprint the slowest most unreliable network

to pull that as one unit gear box /engine ... go to your machine mart and get a load leveler and hook that to your engine puller

its a china made tool that can shift and tilt the engine high or low in the back or front... it has a crank handle and a worm gear you jt crank it foward or back wards ... grease that shaft up good to make the cranking easier or modify the handle to take an electiric empact wrench

when you stick the unit back end remember the speedo cable before its fully in place and loosen the engine mounts and read up on those as they can be tricky the 1st time installing the engine

just take lots of tea breaks thur out the day that will keep you fresh the end.. and expect alot of aggervation
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Don't worry Prop the ginger nuts are ready, I mean the biscuits btw.
The load leveller looks useful I normally just use brute force on a centre hook. Out of interest where do you fix the L brackets to.
Andy Potter

i used the rocker cover bolts
Rob Armstrong

"The smell of the gearbox lingers forever too"
If a 1098 ribcage gearbox stinks it's got the wrong oil in it. It should have 20/50 engine oil, which should remain fairly clean and not have the smell associated with Hypoid oil.
Bernie Higginson

Bernie, maybe that was why my old oil stunk when the gearbox went in 5 years ago then. I honestly can't remember what I replaced it with but having just drained it again it does seem better this time. Rest assured the new charge will be correct :)
Andy Potter

This thread was discussed between 31/08/2016 and 16/09/2016

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