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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Electrical facet 'silver' fuel pump, mount?

Those of you that have fitted a more modern electrical fuelpump where have you fitted it? Of anyone have some photos that would be nice. I'm thinking about mounting it in front of the rearaxel or is that a bad idea?

Regards
Alex
Alexander Sorby Wigstrom

That's where mine was - in the same position as the original.
You may want to isolate it with rubber mounts/bobbins as they're noisy little beggars those Facets!
Jeremy Tickle

I've got swirl pot and HP pump where the original one was, and a little facet pump at the very top of the wheelarch, on little rubber things
Rob Armstrong

I put the Facet cube on my last Midget in front of the axle mounted on rubber (see photo). And it was a noisy little thing as Jeremy said.

On my latest project (an Elan) I have mounted a Webcon pump in the boot and once it is filled with fuel it is almost silent. Even with the engine not running you have to listen quite hard to hear it. Most impressive. It's one of these http://www.webcon.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=48


Mike Howlett

I mounted my Facet cube on the bulkhead roughly where the SU was originally. I made a mount standing off the bulkhead so that I could fix the rubber mounts. I can hear the vibration when the engine is not running but nothing after start up. Here a picture.

Chris Hasluck

When you say "where the original was" I have no idea since my car had a mechanical pump that was fitted to the engine. :-)

But since they seem to put pumps there on later cars as yours I'll do the same with mine, I like the idea of your bracket Chris, think I'll do something similar.

Mike, having a silent pump sounds like money well spent but as I already bought a new one I'll stick with it to begin with.
Alexander Sorby Wigstrom

Mike, just out of curiosity what setup of carbs do you run on you Elan, twin SU or Webers and no pressure regulator with that fuel pump?

Thanks
Alex
Alexander Sorby Wigstrom

As you can see, you can mount those pumps just about anywhere. I once had a memorable stop in a cornfield where I had to plumb an emergency Facet in the fuel line by the carbs. When I got home, I had the SU pump rebuilt and it is in the normal place by the right rear wheel. I also put a backup Facet (mounted on an MGB trans. mount - Moss US #413-050 to isolate it) sort of across the axle from it on the sloping forward part of the boot floor where I had an existing hole. Fuel goes from the tank, to the Facet, to the SU then the carbs. These pumps have no problem pushing or pulling through each other. Only one runs at a time - I have a switch in the boot so if one craps out, I just flip the switch to energize the other one. I haven't had to do it yet, but I'm ready! (I do test them occasionally to make sure both work).

BTW, there is some controversy concerning the filter between the tank and Facet, or other, pumps. I think it concerns the fact that these pumps can easily pump crud through them without problem. But, if the prefilter gets plugged up and the pumps run dry, it will burn them up. A filter before the carbs should be sufficient.
Jack Orkin

Alex,
a modern electronic fuel pump does necessarily mean you have to fit one those noisy little square b*ggers (although many do and are happy with them) - I'm just suggesting an alternative

I've had one of the following fitted for 7 years without thought or problems of it - http://classicparts4cars.co.uk/mg-midget-electronic-fuel-pump---auf214--qfp171e-133-p.asp

sorry I've not got a photo of it in situ but it is in the factory fitted place
Nigel Atkins

My electric pump is mounted under the floor above the axle. It's mounted through rubber grommets with rubber washers. It's still too noisy so I might add rubber bobbins too - but there's no carpets or sound-proofing yet so it might be fine as is. I have a fuel pressure regulator on a bracket that doubles as a blanking plate on the engine block for the old mechanical pump. If that proves to be too warm a location, I might change it.
Nick Nakorn

Here is a picture of mine, also running in series with the original SU, after a break down on the M25, belt and braces were required.
The pumps are wired so that only one can operate at a time.

Dave

Dave Barrow

my QH pump is mounted same as Dave's SU

I've no soundproofing and only the cheapest, thinnest carpets sold but the only noise I get from the pump is the occasional soft glunk of fuel delivery
Nigel Atkins

The reason I went for the Facet pump was not just for electronic reliability but also for a greater fuel flow. The Facet cube had a higher output than my SU (and a suitable low pressure so no need for a pressure regulator). I found I was getting fuel starvation with the SU when running at high revs during track days (coughing and spluttering at the end of Doningtons pit straight!).
Chris Hasluck

on the V8 I've got an electric pump in series with a mechanical pump, works really well and has stopped fuel starvation when giving it beans uphill
Rob Armstrong

One thing to keep in mind

Some of these fuel pumps have to be mounted lower then the lowest point of fuel

If you mount some of these pumps at half way point on the fuel tank, then the pump wont pull the fuel once its dropped below the pump postion

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Hi

Chris mentioned fuel cut out when on track days. Unless the car engine is modified, I would be checking the filter, carbs, fuel line, tank, cap (breather) and operation of the pump first rather than assuming the fuel pump is too low spec.

Also note that SU electric fuel pumps can be had in a range of specs, so in the old days racing and rally people fitted more power pumps both single ones (e.g. ones normally fitted to Jaguars and big Healeys). Books on the BMC works Mini rally cars give info. Also you can get twin SU fuel pumps.

See:
http://www.sciperformance.co.uk/page_2735932.html


http://sucarb.co.uk/su-fuel-pumps-spares.html

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Alex, I've only just come back to this thread. My Elan has twin 40DCOE Webers, but the pump has an output pressure of only 2.5 - 4.5 psi which makes it suitable for any carb without needing a pressure regulator. By the way, Elans never had SU carbs. Some had twin Strombergs. Some had Dellortos. Most had Webers.

Mike


Mike Howlett

Mie - fair comment about fuel starvation and checking the whole fuel system, However it was the pump as everything else was OK. The engine is substantially modified. I thought of a more powerful SU but had trouble discovering which one to go for so took the easier option.
Chris Hasluck

just out of interest the pump I have and posted a link to in an earlier post - "delivers 9 gallons per hour and has a 2.5 - 3 PSI delivery pressure" easily enough for even (most?) upgraded/improved/tuned road going Spridget
Nigel Atkins

Nigel
You are correct that the pump you mentioned would be OK for my car BUT just when I needed a pump Quintin Hazell went bust and I could not obtain a replacement in the form you mention.
Chris Hasluck

Chris,
perfect example of Sod's Law
Nigel Atkins

A lot of good input guys, thanks.

I'll fit the pump where I thought infront of the rear axel and as low as i feel comfortable with. And should I feel it to be to loud I might try one of the pumps suggested.

Cheers
Alex
Alexander Sorby Wigstrom

To be honest alex,

I think having the pump mounted a bit higher as compared to the bottom of the fuel tank maybe a good thing, that way the pump will stop delivering fuel before the tank runs out of fuel, thus not sucking all the gas tank trash into the pump, into the fuel lines, and ultimately into the carbs...

You just have to figure out where that point is on the gas gauge, so you wont run out of fuel to early

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I don't think mounting the pump higher will have any effect on how far down you can run the thank unless you mount it so high that it can't lift that high, and that might be above the height of the car. The TDs I've seen have the pump mounted in the engine compartment not far below the bottom of the windshield.

Also, I often hear people claim that they sucked trash into the carbs because they ran the fuel tank low. Where does that idea come from? I think it is pretty rare to have a floating fuel pick up (like the gauge float). The pick up is normally fixed near the bottom of the tank. So, aren't you always picking up fuel down where any trash would be even if the tank were completely full?

Charley
C R Huff

Charley,

My thought is the trash floats on top of the fuel...

Im not sure about other fuel pumps but my morriso pump wont deliver fuel when it sits at a particular level as it relates to the fuel level in the fuel tank

But I think there are 2 kinds of pumps... pushers and suckers

But I cant say how accurate my info is, just observation

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Well, how about that, Prop. I never thought of the trash floating on top. I guess just because the water sinks doesn't mean the other stuff does too.

Charley
C R Huff

Well, even if your pump did pick up trash, floating or otherwise, that filter you have just before the carbs would keep it from getting it sucked into the carbs, right?
Jack Orkin

Contaminants in fuel can include rust and tank lining from the inside of the tank, as well as water that has condensed from the air inside the tank (and hopefully not mostly from the fuel supplied!). Both of which will sink.
M Wood

This thread was discussed between 10/02/2015 and 19/02/2015

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