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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Frogeye rear spring shackle washers

Well I've finally fitted the frogeye rear axle which was a bit of a struggle but a combination of trolley jack, scissors jack and wood blocks did the job. However, in the Moss diagram there are two washers (which are plastic) intended to go either side of the spring shackle bush before inserting the shackle bolt. My springs had nowhere near enough space either side for these washers so I simply used the bolts only (both sides).

I really don't want to remove the bolts again so how important are these plastic washers? You'd think they'd wear away in use. I'm assuming the bolts should clamp the spring metalastic bushes firmly anyway so why the washers?

Bill
Bill Bretherton

I have not got any on my car. The original parts book I have does not show any either. I agree the bolt should clamp the bush securely. I think the Moss catalogue is incorrect
Bob Beaumont

I would second that they're not needed as mine certainly doesn't have any. Moss does mention that they're for later cars ie From (c) H-AN6 12068, from (c) G-AN1 7442 .

Just saw the improvements to the BB while posting this, the ability to add 2 images and a PDF by the look of it.
David Billington

Ok thanks, that's reassuring. I did post a picture but it won't appear.....

Bill Bretherton

Ah, it does now!
Bill Bretherton

IIRC the hole in the plastic washer is big enough to accept the centre of the metalastic bush. I had a devil of a job fitting mine but in the end I managed it. I think the idea of the plastic washer is to allow the outer part of the metalastic bush to rotate while the centre is clamped by the bolt.
If the outer and inner parts of the bush are both clamped it will not be a very good metalastic bush.
If you haven't fitted the plastic washer make sure you tighten the bolt enough to clamp the centre but not the outer.
It's quite probable that a PO had trouble fitting the washers and tightened the bolt to much.
Rob
MG Moneypit

Rob, I think I see what you mean i.e. the washers are intended to stop the end of the spring binding on the axle bracket/ enclosure. In practice it probably doesn't make much difference I'll bet.
Bill Bretherton

Rob,

I think if the outer part of the bush was allowed to rotate it would just wear the outer metalastic bush sleeve and spring eye, the rubber bonded into the bush should be able to cope with the shearing action between the inner and outer sleeves. I looked at the Moss image and it looked like the hole in the centre of the washer was large enough to pass over the inner sleeve as you indicate so I think the washer may just be there to stop the spring eye and metalastic bush outer moving too far to one side and hitting the axle turret side.
David Billington

They are possibly more to do with preventing road grit from getting trapped against the ends of the metalastic bush and causing wear in the rubber. The spring shouldn't move laterally anyway. If there is sideways movement it is the axle moving under hard cornering.
GuyW

David/ Guy
It could be a combination of what you both suggest i.e. it makes sense that you don't want the spring end to contact the turret (from some inevitable sideways movement) but you also don't want grit causing wear. I'm now wondering whether to attempt to fit the washers.
Bill Bretherton

Bill

if it helps, I have had my car for over 40 years, its never had the nylon washers.I renewed the rear springs in 1985 which included the bushes. When I took the axle out in 2009 as part of the rebuild of the car, the bushes where all fine, in fact after a clean and a repaint, I just bolted it all back up again. The movement as David has pointed out is pretty minimal so unless there is a problem with the turrent, I would get on rebuilding another part of the car!
Bob Beaumont

You're right Bob! I'm spending too long worrying about things that probably don't matter.
Bill Bretherton

I have fitted these washers multiple times, and assumed that they were necessary for the reasons others have given. I think that if a PO didn't fit them the sides of the turret will have been squeezed in, making it even more difficult. Even if this isn't the case they are very tight. My method is to jack up the spring carefully, until the end is just entering the turret, leaving enough space to insert the washer. It will be too high, but as the spring is pushed up it will slide down and pop over the end of the steel tube in the bush - if you have judged it right!

Having said all this, my car only ever had one washer each side and I wonder if even that is necessary.

Les
L B Rose

My MK1 Midget had the nylon washers when I stripped it down and I’m fairly sure they are original. They fitted over the centre of the bush and I assumed they were fitted to stop any binding during any sideways axle movement.

Isn’t there something similar at the front of the half elliptic springs?
John Payne

Yes my rear springs on my 1500 have the washers too
Chris Madge

This thread was discussed between 03/03/2020 and 05/03/2020

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