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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Fuel hose

Before I restock, has anyone come across a later / better spec fuel hose than SAE J30 R9? Given the way modern fuels and additives attack rubber I want the best I can get.
David Smith

Think of piss-poor quality rubber rather than getting too paranoid about modern fuels and additives, its not always the modern fuel quality but the quality of the modern made hose that matters regardless of it's printed specification.

As here, sticking with (a genuine) good quality manufacturer and supplier is often more important than having the very latest specs on our cars. - http://www.tasteslikepetrol.net/2017/09/psa-low-quality-sae-j30-r9-fuel-hose/

Bit concerning for me as I think I've had stuff from Advanced Fluid Solutions but can't remember what.
Nigel Atkins

I thought R9 was still current top spec stuff. I didn't find anything else with a higher number when I bought hose a few months ago!

Malc.
Malcolm

thanks both; I'll be buying Aeroquip if I can get it in UK, or Mocal. Like brakes it's something I no longe just buy the cheapest of.
David Smith

David
Most(all) of the hoses have to meet the requirements advertised for the particular hose for compatibility to fuels and pressure etc but there seems to be varying qualities of outside layers
I've even seen new hoses that after a few weeks you can bend and the outer will crack
Because of this i now use marine grade hose which appears to have a better quality outer
Been using Bombadier(johnson,Evinrude) hose and it's been great
Gates do several marine grade hoses
William Revit

There are other numbers and specs, I'm not sure about their availability, this is from 2015 but might give an idea if you want to research further. - http://www.volksbolts.com/faq/fuelhose.htm
Nigel Atkins

David,
on a quick look previously I couldn't really make out what the likes of Demon Tweeks use for race and rally stuff but saw that a Mocal fuel hose was made by Codan.

Volksbolts sell Codan SAE J30 R9 in 6.3mm at £13.99 for first meter and £13.29 per meter after. - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254656405760
Nigel Atkins

thanks Nige, seen all that before.
Willy - looked at marine hose - no mention of SAE standard but it's all ISO7840 which seems to be better as it's fire resistant for 2 1/2 minutes. There's a current 12-page thread on Volkzone forum which began back in 2013! Yet some respondents still recommend the stuff from AFS which I think is the shonky stuff that cracks in a few months.
David Smith

David
There's a stack of numbers on the Bombadier hose,
The hose I use is from their later fuel injected o/boards so pressure rating wouldn't be an issue- I'll check it out in the morning and get the specs.
willy
William Revit

Here you go-
This is the hose I've been using-
i've used it on a 100% alcohol boat injection for a couple of years now and on several cars with no issues from ethanol or any cracking on the outside

willy




William Revit

thanks Willy; none of the numbers match any Euro or UK or USA standards and I don't think it's available in UK. There's a few mentions on the iboats forum but seems mostly USA users.
I do hope the 'PRC' doesn't stand for People's Republic of China !
I'll carry on with my remaining SAE J30 R9 but keep an eye on it and replace every 2 years.
David Smith

I recently bought some fuel hose to use for air as I wanted a flexible hose for a foot valve on a pneumatic planishing hammer so I could move it around easily. I couldn't find anyone selling rubber air hose that wasn't rated for 20bar maximum working pressure which seemed bizarre and it's quite a bit stiffer than the fuel hose I got as I have a bit of 20bar air hose. The maximum pressure this is likely to see is 6bar so I got some 10bar maximum working pressure rated fuel hose and it's fine, both the air and fuel hose had a burst rating 3x the maximum working pressure.
David Billington

Here we go again.

Decided to replace the original steel braided fuel hose feed to my SU's (as noticed a crack), and want to pre-empt the leak. Was looking for gates barricade. Moss out of stock on their website. They advsrtise on ebay, but when I tried to order, it went nowhere.

Plenty selling j30r6, but blurb says not good enough for ethanol. Although some say this is about pressure, and for carbs which are fed at quite low pressure, a decent j30r6 is fine.

As a quick fix bought some r6 from these people, only £4.46, as they claim, in bold, "compatable with ethanol". And they have 99.9% feedback.

https://order.ebay.co.uk/ord/show?orderId=20-09196-89231#/

We'll see.

Meanwhile, what's the latest news, who supplies gates or other acceptable brand?







anamnesis

When I did mine, I was very cautious as it is just too easy to print the code number on any old bit of hose. Recommendation was as usual to "buy from a reputable company" but it is still no guarantee. And several known companies that I tried were out of stock.

I then ordered from a main supplier who advertised it as E10 proof but when it came I looked up on the manufacturers web site and found it wasn't E10 proof after all!
They refunded, but I used the pipe anyway and will just keep checking on it. So far it's been ok.
GuyW

anam
don't worry about the R6 on E10, one area of note though is the angle of the bend on the rubber hose. I can't remember the details so you'll have to find the details yourself, in the Archives here or elsewhere. The carb to carb hose on mine had some tight bends well beyond the spec of the rubber I think but I couldn't see how else to orientate the fuel bowl lid hose connectors.

This might be the link you wanted. - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183177314947
Nigel Atkins

I now confess to a mild bit of bling !
I like the look of the braided steel so I reused it over the new fuel pipes at the carbs. To complete it I added new clips which came with their own rubber finishers to go over the cut ends of the braiding, so it looked smart. Past tense! Those rubber finishers came with Nigel's curse and have already started to disintegrate. The pipe itself, the bit that matters, seems ok, so far!
GuyW

I would guess the braiding is more to do with protection, and bling of course, but I wonder if it also helps with the bends. The braiding hides any faults in the hose so perhaps some spiral spring type might be better - with a bling finish of course.
Nigel Atkins

Halford sell fuel hose in varying diameters and according to the spec they are all suitable for ethanol fuels. A meter costs just over £3.

Jan T
J Targosz

The braided hose that Moss stock is called Petroflex. I just assumed it would be ethanol resistant - seems OK up to now after using for over a year. I know you pay through the nose from them for pre-cut lengths but it does look good and you get the end caps to contain the frayed ends.
Bill Bretherton

Thanks Jan T. Amazingly cheap that Halfords stuff. £3.60 per metre.

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/tools/fuses-electricals-and-fixings/fixings/halfords-fuel-hose-6mm-hfh401-316455.html

Halfords stuff says bend radius 75° Nigel.

The supplier of the stuff I bought ( not sure what the brand is), replied to my question about E10 use.
--- "Our fuel hose is suitable for E10 unleaded fuel to work within in the pressure stated 20Bar - R9 is actually a fuel injection hose and this would not be suitable for this ".----

And that's the same specification as Halfords.

So it does indeed appear as you say Nigel, and as I've now read in several places, R6 is fine as long as it is good quality. And the bonus is, it's cheaper than Gates, which is out of stock anyway.






anamnesis

anam,
I think, but not sure, can't remember, I've seen less than 75° (on other sizes perhaps) but even at that it's not a lot so perhaps easy to understand the cracking starting at points well above the stated limit.

As with a lot of stuff, previously when this subject has been looked at it can get very complex and confusing with errors and omissions, and even contradictory information on manufacturers or suppliers websites, but the needs for "classics" is lower than many other applications. As you've put it's as much about quality as specification. I've tried different hoses from different suppliers and regardless of what is on the hose or not piss-poor rubber remains piss-poor rubber but thankfully it seems (I don't know) less prevalent now than before, of course time will tell but at least the rubber hoses seem to last more than weeks or months.
Nigel Atkins

Anyway Nigel, how are you? Have the withdrawal symptoms abated? Being a recovering Spridgetolic is neither fun for you, or anyone close by I would imagine. 😉.

Are you tempted to fall back, on in this case, the wagon? 😁

anamnesis

You mean have the withdrawal symptoms started yet, no they haven't and my back has been a lot better for not crawling under the car or bending over.

Was offered a replacement sportscar not an hour ago, not that I could afford to buy it, run it easily, a fleet of them by what I used to spending. 🤣

I was thinking about whether to archive all the imperialist tools I've got ("you don't need many", wot a load of tosh) or whether to give them away again as I did before but I've got more now.

I'll have to sort out the few remaining Spridget bits - imperialist nuts/washers/setscrews/bolts, books and . . . one set of the unmentionables!

Nigel Atkins

Well I hope you've cleaned your unmentionables. 😅😅.

I think you'd better keep the tools a while longer, just in case the shakes do start, and you want a fix.

Better the tool you know, that some cheap crap you have to buy to replace it. 😉.
anamnesis

What the H*** does "Bend Radius: 75 degrees" mean. An angle is not a radius. Do they guarantee it as long as you do less than 75 degree around a 1/2" radius?
Utter nonsense.
Rob
MG Moneypit

I just fired up the Frogeye to take it round the block, first time since October. Took some starting and when I checked under the bonnet fuel was spraying from one or two flexible hose junctions under pump pressure. On closer inspection the hose has deteriorated - it must be the dreaded ethanol although I've mostly used Esso E5 which is supposed to be ethanol free.

The hose is Petroflex from M*ss with the fancy metal braiding maybe 2 years old. Waste of money then. How can they sell that stuff for classics?

So what do I replace it with? J30R9? Halfords? I just want something that works for more than 5 minutes!
Bill Bretherton

Bill, use this stuff that Jan T linked to lower in the thread.

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/tools/garage-equipment/fuses-electricals-fixings/halfords-fuel-hose-6mm-hfh401-316455.html

Very good value.
anamnesis

It's specified for Ethanol.

anamnesis

Thanks Anam, will try that and at a good price!
Bill Bretherton

Back in July I bought some of this from Volksbolts (which Nigel has mentioned earlier).
Not cheap but so far so good.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/254656405760?hash=item3b4ab46100:g:XWgAAOSwPHhfEaig

Jeremy MkIII

Jeremy
Your R9 hose is much more expensive than Halfords R6. I'm guessing it's better but might take a punt on the Halfords. Proof of pudding is in about 12/24 months time I suppose unless someone who has had Halfords for that long can tell us.
Bill Bretherton

Bill,

Mine is still going strong and its about 2 years old now. No nasty cracks. I do use octane boost but I can't imagine it makes any difference
Bob Beaumont

I'd have bought the halfords stuff had I known how cheap it was.

But before Nigel posted his link, I'd already just bought this stuff. Also pretty cheap per meter. Says e10 resistant, and so far doing it's job.


"Fully compliant with BSAU108/2 and SAE J30R6 specifications for fuel hose. Suitable for transference of petroleum products with up to 50% aromatic content. Offers good resistance to weather, oil & abrasion. Features a high tensile strength textile reinforcement.

Compatible with E10 Fuel"


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183177314947



anamnesis

Bob, Anam
Thanks, I'll give the Halfords stuff a go. I may try to fit the blingy metal braiding from the petroflex over it.
Bill Bretherton

Yes it was more expensive Bill but I'd used it on an air cooled VW with good results so used it again. The Halfords hose will no doubt, give equally good performance but there is so much choice out there, not all of it good, that I stuck with what I knew.
Jeremy MkIII

Jeremy
Sticking with what you know makes sense! If it works, it works.
Bill Bretherton

Well, seems I was wrong about the Petroflex from M*ss. On removal, the leak was more to do with deteriorated rubber end caps you put over the metal braiding meaning that the metal clamps weren't holding. Not only that, although the hose underneath had maybe softened a bit it was virtually identical to the Halford stuff with J30R6 written on it. I got some smaller clips clamped directly on new rubber hose and all is good now. If it starts leaking in the future I'll get something like Jeremy's hose.
Bill Bretherton

This thread was discussed between 30/08/2020 and 30/01/2023

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