MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - hard top

I'm considering buying a hard top for inclement weather driving over the autumn and spring. Please forgive my ignorance, but does the soft top need to be totally removed, frame and all (1970/71 car)before fitting the hard top? It looks as if it merely bolts onto the tonneau bar brackets and clips onto the front rail. Otherwise it looks as if all the rear screws need removing every time you want to reinstate the soft top.
Cheers
Dom
Dominic Excell

Dom -

My hard top rests on the shoulder around the back of the cockpit, and fits very well with the soft top folded.

Cheers,

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

Im going to guess it depends on the hardtop

Mine is same as gryfs ...almost, there both parish HT.

I dont remove anything... not even the soft top cover, I just sit the HT on top of the cover and latch it to the windshild the same way the soft top
attaches, and I use a hook thats screws down to hold at the 2 sides on the seatbelt bolt hold...nice and snug, never leaks, looks great and easy piessy to install and remove

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Thats great, thanks chaps!
Dominic Excell

Dom,
might be obvious to you but I've seen it done, when you drop the vinyl top before fitting the hardtop make sure the soft top is fully dry or you could get mould and weakening of stitching

hear me out on this next section, fitting a hardtop is unnecessary and will lose you lots of top down driving opportunities

from 1st Oct last year for the next 20 weekends on 11 of them we (the wife that gets cold easily) were out in the Midget with the top down at least one of the days of the weekend sometimes both - on each occasion the temperature was above 5C, it was dry and sunny or we saw the sun each time and this during the worst winter here for 20-30 years(?), we actually saw protracted snow and ice, check the number of occasions that the roads were gritted and I bet it's less than you imagine and bear in mind because of previous complaints the council here at least would grit quite freely

I posted about this 11 out of 20 before so it's in the Archives

IIRC it was weeks 21-25 in the spring that were a total wash out, through autumn, late autumn and winter we were out with the roof down enjoying the fresh air and the sun! and were not uncomfortable, in fact my wife still complained about her feet being hot

if you park in rough areas a hardtop will offer a bit more protection but you don't need it for winter weather, the Spridget cabin and windscreen are small so are easily heated, even my poorly made and fitted hood keeps the rain and cold out

with the soft top you can drop or raise the top at any time, with a hardtop you can't so it's fitted even when you don't want it let alone need it

I'm not hardy if it's cold I'll put the roof up but it's so nice to drop the roof when you can like 11 out of 20 weekends of runs last SORN season

up to you but you will miss out on those many opportunities
Nigel Atkins

Dom,

My factory style top fitted over my old hood, and I used it when I first bought the car because the hood was in poor condition.
I've recently tried it over my new hood (A Don Hoods next-one-up from standard vinyl job) and the hood material is thick and stiff enough to prevent it clamping down properly onto the rear deck.
I keep the top at work in Preston. You're welcome to try it for size, before commiting to buying one if you're passing Fylde Rd.
I keep it at work because its a pain to store and mine is double skinned and heavy. Its really takes two to safely manhandle it.

Mark
M Crossley

Echoing Nigel, my hard top hung in the garage all last winter. But part of the reason for that was that I'd fitted a new soft top a couple years back, and it looks and seals much better than the one that was on the car when I bought the hard top years ago. So while it's fun to fit the hard top every now and then just for something different, it's actually become redundant...which has just made me think that perhaps there may be a bit of money in it. Hmmm...

-:G:-
Gryf Ketcherside

Even my very badly fitted by PO soft top keeps me dry. I am only refurbing my hardtop to get the soft top off so I can 'sort it out' if its possible.

Like Nigel; I drove around lots after Christmas (when car on the road first) with the top down and even no heater but a blanket and good clothing. (heater works now):-)
Dave Squire

Hi Dom, my hardtop (acquired with the Midget) sat up in the garage roof, unused for two years, never saw the point of fitting it. The hood and heater works if you need them and the hood can be raised and lowered in an instant.
Mine was sold for £150, best thing I ever did!
Tony
Tony G

OK chaps, you've convinced me and more importantly, my other half! Thanks mateys - you've saved me some filthy lucre for other causes.
what's that I heard you say dear? Shoes??? Handbags???)
Hard top it is then....
Dominic Excell

Dominc,

Late to the post, but I agree with all the softtop is good enough comments.

My Sprite is earlier than yours (65) and maybe yours is more winterised.

But if you are planning on using it inclement weather I would suggest you have a good honest look at the bits you will need when it's cold / dark or wet.

The headlights are a joke, the wipers even more laughable and more worrying, from the rear at night a Sprite has two little taillights and a number plate light.

My car has the old silver / black number plates, but for winter use I'm going to get modern white / yellow reflective ones and I'm looking into ways of improving the cars visibility.

Picture is with the brakes on !

Malc


Malc Gilliver

Hmmm,

I like my hardtop

top down is great, just like eating turkey with all the fixings, but sometimes theres nothing like a big greasy cheeseburger

To me with the hardtop on it gives the car a differant feel, almost clausterphobic it separates you from the rest of the planet add in tunes and you belive your the only one on the road exempt from all laws and consequence

A hard top just gives the car a new look and ultimately I think gives more pleasure to top down driving

"Turnbuckle" ...thats the part I was trying to think of in my earlier post, but instead of an eye hole, I havea hook on it

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I ADORE my original BMC double skinned glass windowed h/top. If you've been offered one for 50 quid, and have somewhere to keep it in the good weather, when obviously you want the roof down, then BUY IT. Why let other peoples view point put you off?

Fitting and removing a h/top is a one man job, that takes me less than 5 mins. I've had it over 30 years and when the weather turns cold, I fit it. If, as there frequently is in the winter, a sunny day, even if a cold one that I fancy top down driving on, then I take off the h/top. It's no real effort at all. Less than 5 mins. Obviously your commited until you get back home, but that's hardly a deal breaker is it.

One benefit of a h/top, is scraping frost off the rear window without scratching the plastic of the soft top window. I once split one wide open tapping frost off the soft top window. It was a new hood. I was pissed off.

Also, being double skinned and glass windowed, it seriously reduces the noise from outside, esp useful when tanking up a motorway. It reduces wind noise very significantly too, as the door window glass seals properly against the rubber seals of the h/top frame. A h/top for 50 quid will also extend the life of your soft top, which for a good one is a lot more than 50 quid.

Pity your not near me. You could have a drive in mine and see/hear the difference a fitted h/top makes.

A h/top is not essential, and nor is a tonneau, but a h/top is a brilliant and worthwhile extra.
Lawrence Slater

Also, I haven't had a DON hood, but I have had several original BMC hoods, made in the same spec PVC, and have never had any trouble fitting the h/top over the folded down soft top. Maybe it depends how you fold it down?
Lawrence Slater

Malc,
I think you're the first person I've seen agree with my much ridiculed idea that reflective number plates are a good idea so that others can see your car better (even when it's parked)

Dom's got a later car and a 'present' of new headlights

the problem with the wipers is mainly the rubber elements (blades) and possibly the arms too - replacing the blades with new from Tex will not cure this problem I've found, but if anyone wants to try I've got a barely used new set they can have cheap and same for arms (it's a subject I covered now in the Archives)

Lawrence,
I'm not getting into a circular 'discussion' with you but you have forgotten the occasions when you go to a destination with the hood raised but later want to return home roofless, this is very easily possible with a soft top but not very practical with a hardtop

and if other peoples views should not put him off then why should the opposite view also be accepted, I think Dom canvasses opinion and then


his wife can decide :)
Nigel Atkins

Well we had a wonderful roof down drive today, went to St Anne's (not Lytham St Anne's as they are two separate towns) to watch the Red Arrows perform across the Ribble Estuary at Southport. My better half commented that she would be quite happy with roof down winter driving as long as she had a fleece lined hat that covered her ears.
I'll keep my eyes open for a decent hard top nearby, as I can rig up a support in the roof of the garage.
Thanks for your offer to try it out if I were nearer Lawrence, if ever I'm down in your area I'll let you know!
Malc, as Nigel correctly mentioned, I now have decent halogen lights, courtesy of the chap that reversed into me, likewise new black/silver plates. Wipers are adequate - we're both used to Morris Minor wipers! Mine is a 1970 build, so has TWO number plate lights to dazzle the driver behind!
The main thought behind getting a hard top was that we do a fair amount of long distance driving, Blackpool to the other side of Swindon - and I do SO much prefer driving the MG to our new car (Fiat 500)
Thanks anyway chaps for all your input.
Dom.
Dominic Excell

Dom,
the neck can get cold too so a thick collar and/or scarf is useful and gloves

can you rig up a support at all your destinations too ;)

with your car it is very possible that the original number plates when your car was new were reflective and not b&w

one point for the chap's name here - but note the plates on his new(-ish?) at the time car

Nigel Atkins

"you have forgotten the occasions when you go to a destination with the hood raised but later want to return home roofless, this is very easily possible with a soft top but not very practical with a hardtop"

Nope I didn't forget that Nigel, I just didn't put it very well. --- I said, " Obviously your commited until you get back home, but that's hardly a deal breaker is it."

What I meant was, if on a cold wet day in the winter, you go out for a drive, and later the sun shines, your commited until you get back home, but that's hardly a deal breaker is it. And it's not.

So you may miss out on a tiny bit of roof down driving in winter. But that hardly outweighs the benefits of having a hardtop.

And as for storage, as long as you have somewhere that it can't be knicked from, even in the back garden for example garden (it's water proof after all and won't rust), that isn't a problem either.

It's not even a Marmite argument. H/tops are very good to have, it's just to some people they seem like hassle.

Who's the dodgy looking bloke on the Jag?
Lawrence Slater

Francis Lee?
frogeye Gary

Well - I took the plunge and bought this one - ebay item 221280145016.
Came off a 1977 Midget - perspex windows - all in good nick - complete with all fittings.
A trip to Thirsk in a couple of weeks beckons - with a detour to Harrogate for Lindsay - one of her favourite towns.
I'd better start making a rack in the garage.....
Dominic Excell

I Didn't know the later ones had perspex windows. Could the glass have been replaced by perspex, by an owner somewhere along the way?
Lawrence Slater


Definitely Frannie Lee!
Jeremy 3

Dom

NICE.... and a great price to boot

At that price you didnt go wrong...worse case you can resell it....but during bad winter weather or long term storage ...its great

With my car in the the shop the last 2 years awaiting its head, im glad I got the hard top installed

Is that a dead squirral on that poor guys forehead

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

yeap the decidedly dodgy looking chap is footballer Francis Lee possibly with a new car after his team's FA Cup success

I'll just remind that there are many opportunities for roof off driving in autumn and winter, in my example 11 out of 20 is a majority - disclaimer all weather conditions are subject to geographic location and variability :)
Nigel Atkins

Great photo! You can almost smell the Brut dripping off him from here.
Matt1275Bucks

possibly Brut 33 but he might not have worn perfume (sorry aftershave) cause 'Enry ain't said it's all right to yet by then

as well as the reflective number plates note how high the cars used to sit back in their day and how the wheels and tyre weren't designed to fill the wheel arches

by today's standards a relatively modest car for atop flight footballer too

and if you think Franny Lee looks dodgy I'll have to find a photo of the team's manager :)
Nigel Atkins

Ohhhh ... that explains the hair cut on Mr. LEE, He is a footballier

He ither couldnt afford a complete hair cut, or has had to many balls slapping him in the face to know he has a bad haircut.

Hahaha

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Didn't he make a fortune manufacturing toilet rolls too?
frogeye Gary

No idea as yet about replacement perspex Lawrence, collecting it in a couple of weeks so will see if any signs of re-glazing are evident. As Prop says, I can always re-sell if I find I never use it. I suppose another reason to use it would be to try and keep rainwater out. If the car is left out in the rain, there's quite a puddle sloshing about in the footwell. As yet I can't see where it gets in, but am assuming through the hood where it meets the body somewhere. It certainly drips off the top of the windscreen into my lap.. that's my excuse anyway after a long drive non-stop!
Dominic Excell

Dom,

If the rain is dripping on your leg ...2 ideas

1. The rubber seal at the bottom of the windshild is leaking

2... the window washer jets are leaking....belive it or not, these can leak alot of water quickly....I moved mine to the bonnet and welded up the holes in the valance

Dry knees from then on

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Hi Prop
The dripping on the leg is definitely from rain, you can see it dripping in from just inboard of the press stud for the flap of the soft top. I can't see any other ingress however. The seal at the bottom of the windscreen looks "vintage" but doesn't seem to leak!
Dominic Excell

Hi Dom, if the s/top's good, apart from in strong side winds, it ought to keep the rain out. But in strong wind the rain can be blown in. I sewed extra bits on my soft top to stop that happening.

With the h/top, the only place rain can get in is at the rear bottom of the door glasses, where the rubber seal of the hood frame ends if it's too short. But that too can be cured with a bit of modification. I even took mine through a car wash once.
Lawrence Slater

Dom,
that leak might be from the hood or could be the windscreen seal or door to windscreen frame or possibly the header rail seal (or elsewhere)

especially if you have a modern made header rail seal like I've had twice, both within 6 months of each other and both with different profiles, I've adopted a method to stop the weeping leaks with these - if you think it's from the header rail seal email me and I send you my simple method (and you know it will be simple if it's from me)

Prop,
I'd guess it's the wind blowing his hair, the photo is probably from 1969 so longer hair was in fashion but obviously his hair was thinning out at the front - wavy at the back and at the front wavy-goodbye ;)
Nigel Atkins

Hi Lawrence, I might have a go and do a bit of sewing - I have a bit of strong old vinyl roof material - the canvas backing seems good, no rot. I need also to repair the stud fixing area where the front stud meets the B post by the velcro strip.
Nigel (thanks for the emails by the way) it could well be the door to windscreen seal - header rail seal is brilliant, no leaks even in torrential monsoon like rain I was once caught in. Far better than the old Peugeot 205 Roland Garos cabrio header rail design, which always howlked like a banshee over 50mph. Far noisier than the MG.
I think the wind blew my hair away years ago... or it could have been wife and kids....
Dominic Excell

Mine leaks past the wiper gear in the scuttle top, just ordered new rubber seals.

How do you check ? - if the water gets you on the inside of your left leg or collects on the passenger side 'rollback' on the dash. you have leaky wiper gear holes.

Malc
Malc Gilliver

This thread was discussed between 11/09/2013 and 18/09/2013

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS now