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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Head gasket query

Bought a Moss uprated 1275 head gasket . Its copper faced one side only . So what way up does it go . Didn't gaskets used to say UP or FRONT , this says nothing.
And if copper is so good how come its faced copper on one side only? Crafty photo in catalogue shows it to be copper . Ive been duped
R Mcknight

I see on the Moss website they list a solid copper gasket at £93.95 - is this what you bought or something else? What was the part number?
David Smith

Its MST 208 as shown in colour photo in catalogue . Uprated head gasket 1275 £14.95
R Mcknight

Moss are very odd - they list about 7 different 1275 head gaskets yet give no detail about how they vary or what they're best suited to.
I think for a road engine I'd have gone for the Metro turbo gasket at 17.95 or maybe the Competition one at 23.95 but TBQH I'd rather talk to and buy from MiniSpares.
David Smith

I always get a kick out of the use of the word, "uprated" when used in sales catalogs. It is a wonderful word because it could mean anything. It could mean that it is better quality than the original design, or it could mean that it has no business on a road car an is only meant for specific racing applications. The catalogs often fail to provide the information necessary to know which, because they make money on a sale regardless of whether the choice was made wisely or not.

The Payen black head gasket works great, and it is very reasonably priced.


My advice is to return the mystery copper gasket and buy a black Payen and use it. Moss used to sell a silver head gasket that I had leaks with every time (resurfaced head and block), unless a thin strand of copper wire was made into a circle around the oil feed hole. Also had one of the silver ones fail between cylinders 2 & 3. When I learned about the much superior black Payen I switched to it and never had a lick of trouble since.



Norm


Norm Kerr

Gaskets like this have been steel-filler-copper sandwiches for quite some time. They are a good gasket provided the filler material is up to it (not a foregone conclusion since the demise of asbestos).
A decade ago, std MGB gaskets of this type had bad filler which burnt and the gasket blew.
I am using a big-bore (85mm) gasket of this construction for 1950cc MGB motors and they have performed well, so I'd be reasonably confident about it.

That said, my gasket of choice for the 1275 would be the Payen BK450, AKA Metro Turbo sometimes.
Paul Walbran

I got to parrot all the above but id like to add also

On these types of gaskets weather they are copper or MLS but primarly the copper because its so soft , the block and head surface needs to be almost a mirror finish with no blimishes, my understanding cooper is great for the race track but for the street it sucks, because of all the contraction and expansion

If you want a head gasket thats a little more special and very reusable and in the same ball park price as your copper gasket...look into those MLS gaskets, I got one direct from cometic... a bit of an issue getting it installed due to lack of basic instructions and communications, but im very pleased with the outcome, if you get an MLS HG, let me know and ill pass along the hidden instructions your supposed to just magically know by eatting jew jew beans.

But yes ... payen is better then all the other reg gaskets, but im just not a fan of them anymore

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Just avoid the whole problem all together and get a 1500! Only standard and Payen to choose from then and "up" was labeled... ooo... and... and... they only fit over the studs one way anyway! Genius! :-D

Malc.
M Le Chevalier

Malc

But... its still a triumph, no getting around that little fact.

Tis tis tis


Hahaha

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

R McKNIGHT
Plenty of help there not
To answer your question - copper side up -steel side down and if it doesn't look to have any sealant sprayed on it you will need to give it a LIGHT spray of copperkote sealant on both sides to help stop it weeping

willy
William Revit

Yes, light spray of sealant is a good move.
Paul Walbran

You can find quite a few references on the web to copper side down.

I thought it was fire ring crimps uppermost irrespective of material, unless marked.

Does it matter these days, if the gasket is symetrical with reference to ALL the holes?
Lawrence Slater

As you say Lawrence - fire rings upwards
On these gaskets with steel on one side and copper on t'other the steel side is rolled up through onto the copper side to form the steel fire rings on top of the copper As you also say ,I have seen mentioned on the odd site to mount them copper side down but they should be copper side up
If you come across one of these type of gasket marked front or top they always end up copper side up
It would probably work fine over the other way But there is going to be a brand of gasket out there somewhere waiting to catch us out with something like progressivly sized coolant holes or the oil hole in one end missing Hopefully these would be clearly marked front or top
cheers willy

Just out of interest the little 289-302 Ford Windsor v8 is a perfect example of getting caught out if unaware of how to fit the gaskets = I do a fair bit on these and they use the same gasket for both sides
Right hand side up the right way-left hand side upside down
I've lost count of how many of these I've had to pull apart because they've overheated out the road and it's always after someone has had the heads off and fitted both the gaskets the same way up They can even have front marked on them but that gets ignored cause whoever fitted them can't bring themselves to fit one upside down like they are supposed to be
over
William Revit

Ah... 289/302... great little motor, but as I recall, a tricky one you have to know to becareful of... that whole winsor / clevland issue was interesting to learn on

I remember the hot rod kids in high school troving the same salvage yards looking for 351 heads for there 289 blocks (if I recall correctly).... that was a lifetime ago

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Took it back and got the Metro Turbo gasket . Any advice on use , fit dry or with sealant?
R Mcknight

the black Payen / Metro Turbo gasket is fitted dry.


Norm Kerr

I've always fitted the black Payen ones dry. I usually degrease the block and head with solvent first. Make sure you have clean hands and work space before unwrapping the gasket as it has a slightly sticky coating that seems to attract dirt.

I've had good results with them, the one fitted at the moment is just on its way out after a couple of seasons hard use. I'm hoping it holds up for this weekend at the Anglesey sprint!
john payne

This thread was discussed between 31/08/2014 and 01/09/2014

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