MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG Midget and Sprite Technical - MK1 Sprite badge

I am after a MK1 Sprite bonnet badge. None of the normal suppliers seems to have one in stock! Some have just said no stock but I have had 3 orders accepted, only to receive an email a week or so later in each case saying they are on back order with expected delivery July 2021. Does anyone have a second hand one they would like to sell me?

Alternatively some information on them please. What diameter are they? Are they the same as the later radiator grill badge, but presumably with a different fixing? The grill badge for my '71 Austin Sprite is 3 & 5/16" diameter which seems a good deal too big for the hole in a Frogeye bonnet.
GuyW

Guy

I will have a rummage. I may have one but I recall its lost its red colouring due to UV.
Bob Beaumont

Bob that would be great, if you find it.
The reason I was asking for dimension is that my Plan C is to cast a domed disc in resin - as (literally) a stop- gap. The empty hole in the bonnet looks wrong!
GuyW

Guy

If I don't find it,the overall diameter of my badge is
2.25" Have you tried Ahead for Healeys they show the badge still in stock???
Bob Beaumont

Yes tried them. A common thing seems to be firms listing them, confirming order and then a week later emailing to say they are on back order. It may be that they are not holding stock for low volume sales items but buy in as and when they get an order.
GuyW

First snows of winter on the hills here. Quite low too, down to around 400 feet, but still mild.
GuyW

The winged bonnet badge is also unavailable. I tried the suppliers that did not have "unavailable" or "out of stock" on their websites. I tried 3 including Ahead 4 Healeys just as Guy did. All accepted the order followed a week later admitting they couldn't find any stock.
Rob
MG Moneypit

Guy

Is this what you are looking for?: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-AUSTIN-HEALEY-FROG-EYE-SPRITE-BONNET-BADGE-ORIGINAL-ITEM/233809423685?hash=item367020ad45:g:BqUAAOSwJHlfzRXn

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

Looks like it Mike.
Thanks
GuyW

Well done Mike beat me to it!!
Bob Beaumont

Well I did bid, but someone else's pockets are a lot deeper than mine! Final price went for £93. I hope the winner is pleased with it when it arrives.
GuyW

£93!!! Must be gold plated!
Bill Bretherton

I now have the much sought after badge, thanks to efforts of #1 son 😁

Used, original. Front view is good. Back is missing odd flakes of black, but the red, gold and silver areas are all undamaged. It's the metallic colours that are very hard to repair.

It's missing it's tag extensions that the clips fit to so I need to secure it by some other means. Possibly black silicone? I am conscious there is a danger of bonding with an adhesive to the paint, that then lifts off its weaker bond with the acrylic.

Anyone BTDT?


GuyW

Guy

Mine does not have the tag extensions. The badge has a 'rim' which goes through the hole in the bonnet. To stop the badge turning there is a cut out in the bonnet which a ridge in the rim fits into. Its held by a couple of small U shaped spring clips attached to the rim to hold it in place. I may be wrong but the one you have may come from a later Sprite possibly the grille. I recall they are the same diameter. Some time ago I had several packs of new Austin Sprite grille badges which had the tags
Bob Beaumont

Bob I did wonder that.
This one is the same diameter as the correct bonnet badge (57mm) and covers the 52mm hole, but as you say, doesn't have the stepped edge. The other possibility I did wonder whether it is from a later styled winged badge if that used a detachable centre piece of the same diameter?

It doesn't matter, assuming I can fix this one satisfactorially, thenI am happy with what I have got. It is in good condition and will look right once fitted and I never was after a concours standard anyway.
GuyW

I don't think its the winged version as its one moulding and there would be evidence of the 'wings'

Using adhesive (or mastic etc) may not work for the reasons you mention. I tried that in the past when I was tried reusing a broken original badge that had lost its stepped edges. The effect of wind on the badge when travelling along was greater than the adhesive and I lost it together with a nice circle of paint! Devising a mechanical way of securing it would be the best option. perhaps some small self tapping screws and washers??
Bob Beaumont

OK, its not the centre of a winged version then.

Small self tappers or tapped set screw hloles might work but would show through the acrylic from the front. Sticking with a modern automative silicone adhesive would probably be as strong, but only in its bond to the paint. If that lets go of the acrylic then that is the weak point. A better bonding paint would be one way if I could find something.

The other possibility would be to infill the whole of the back with something, maybe resin, and hope that this gets a better hold over the larger and more intricate shaped surfacing of the whole badge. With some care I could probably do this with a 52mm circle mould so that it built up the equivalent of the stepped original and this would further help with firm location in the bonnet.
GuyW

Guy,

I have used this Sika product recently

https://gbr.sika.com/dms/getdocument.get/97f6624a-426e-39f4-b402-d0597e2d1873/Sikaflex%20EBT%20DL.pdf

Its a polyurethane mastic adhesive and avaialable via Srewfix.

Not sure if it would react with your paint so a trial would be a good idea.

On the yachts I have been using other polyurethane mastics for years and performance was much better than Silicons. And in construction we were using a lot on curtain walls etc.

R.
richard b

Blue tac (or white tac).

I glued my rad grille badge and it disappeared two weeks later (note my profile photo) the replacement is still there after say 10 years.

If you're worried about the paint put a bit of blue tac on the paint in an inconspicuous place and leave it there for 6 months, remove it and see what happens to that very small area of paint.

Once blue tac has been left in situ a good while it will hold a tremendous weight but also can be parted and rubbed off.

Similar to this idea but I don't know if it's exactly the same sort of stuff - https://command.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/command-gb/products/~/Command-Outdoor-Light-Clips-Value-Pack-17017CLR-AW/?N=5002385+8709316+8709366+8710658+8710846+8711749+8723808+3290082069&rt=rud

The blue tac has held my badge on sitting outside at weather temps of 36c to -13c (and apparent of 49c and -15c), not on paint but plastic of grille inset.
Nigel Atkins

Nigel, I don't think the issue is with sticking the badge on, there is a variety of adhesives, including blue-tac ,that would do that.

The problem is that any of these methods will glue to the paint and the bond that the paint has with the acrylic is the suspect link. Especially as I don't know what the paint actually is!
GuyW

If you don't know, well there's only one way to find out then. You must have an area that you could do trials on and if any react repaint/rebond without too much effort or it be seen.

I'm surprised at you missing the adventure of discovery for yourself by doing all this reading in advance.

The build and even running of the car can continue without the badge or other different methods of fixing the badge. I think you're just going for the 100 posts on a thread.
Nigel Atkins

LOL,
I am quite happy to experiment, but having just recently made at least 2 irreversible and less than ideal decisions on my starter motor, I thought I would see if anyone else had experimented and found a good working solution!
GuyW

Surely accordingly the more mistakes you make the more you're learning - and others can learn from your mistakes by reading about them. :)

Carry on enough and you could write a book - for experimenters to ignore, to learn for themselves. :)

You're not alone, number of times I've broken something and after looked up how it should have been done but that's mainly because of my laziness and having to start the job or I might not ever.
Nigel Atkins

Guy, what about removing a small circle of paint where the badge goes and then use your favourite adhesive. As the adhesive would seal the metal rust shouldn't be a problem. I would use Araldite.

Trev
T Mason

How about epoxying some kind of screw to the back of the badge and then putting a bar on the underside of the bonnet with a hole in it (the bar being wider than the hole) and attaching it all with a nut. No worries about peeling paint and you can always remove it for your next respray.
Martin

The problem isn't the paint lifting from the body of the car. That paint is very secure. There's no need to break the car paint surface. There are various ways of attaching to the car but the real problem is how to attach any fixing mechanism to the back of the badge.

The graphics and colours on these badges are on the reverse side, viewed through the clear acrylic from the front. Anything that damages, removes or penetrates that paint layer can be seen from the front and damages the appearance of the badge. The main paint layer on the back of the badge, covering all of the surface is the black and I am not confident in the bond that this unknown 60 year old paint has with the smooth surface of the acrylic.

But thanks for the suggestions. All contributions are very welcome as even if they aren't the answer, they may combine with others or spark an idea resulting in a solution.

I think I have an idea now!
GuyW

I like Martin's idea of a bar across the back of the hole, or a slight modification of that. Something akin to the fixing brackets used on the 2" dashboard gauges, but with shorter diminutive legs.

The 57mm badge has a flat perimeter band about 8mm wide, currently painted black. If I remove the paint just from that band I can bond a 50mm acrylic disc to that surface to fit into the 50mm hole in the bonnet with a mounting bolt the centre. This bonded surface will show from the front as light is transmitted through the 2 acrylic layers, but then if I paint all of the exposed surfaces on the back it should seal out the light and all appear as black when viewed from the front.
GuyW

Sorry Guy, misread your post. I now see you were talking about the paint on the badge not on the body as I thought.

If you use your disc idea how about mixing black paint with your chosen adhesive to blend it in.

Trev
T Mason

Yes, good idea. The adhesive either needs to be totally clear so the join doesn't catch the light, or black so it matches the rest of the badge. Or I could cast a resin disk if one can do this with a black pigment?
GuyW

Good Idea Guy. Just need the right adhesive now....

Bob Beaumont

I'd just stick it on with black Sikaflex, it won't hurt the paint, they glue windscreens in with it
You could get it all ready and drive to your local w/screen joint and get them to squirt a bit out of their man sized tube, smear it over the back of the badge and plonk it in, It stays moveable for a while so plenty of time to wiggle it to where you want it and will need some masking tape to hold him in place till tomorrow
William Revit

ISTR that Gorilla brand epoxy is black when mixed. I might have some in the workshop so I can maybe check later.
Greybeard

Willy, I have Sikaflex, but you too have missed the point. I couldn't have explained it well enough!

The problem isn't with the paint on the car. It's that any adhesive, however good, is only going to stick to the paint on the back of the badge, and not directly to the badge itself. The bond between that paint and the acrylic is the weak point and is where it will come adrift if it fails.

But, if I remove even just some contact areas of that paint, it will spoil the appearance of the badge from the front.
But I can experiment a bit with a home cast Austin Sprite badge that I have (yes, the ultra rare one!) and I think come up with a solution.
GuyW

Guy

yes your right its the adhesion of the paint layer on the back of the badge. My nice round circle of paint (see my last post) was black rather than red!!
Bob Beaumont

Okay I checked. It's called "Gorillaweld" and it's shiny black. It's actually the hardener that's black - the resin is whitish clear.
I only had a tiddly bit left so I mixed it to let you see it.
BTW it does stick very well indeed. Strong stuff.

Greybeard

Re: black pigment for casting acrylic. I'm not sure about using paint, I have a feeling it might interfere with the setting of the material. But dry carbon black powder from an art shop should be alright if you want to go that way.
Just a thought.
Good luck!
Greybeard

Sorry yes I too thought it was body paint, which did make me wonder about acrylic and you not knowing the paint.

But if you completely filled the rear of the badge with something that goes solid it'd trap and hold in the paint and you could set fixings into the hardening material during hardening or when solid perhaps screw or drill and tap(?) the material.
Nigel Atkins

Thanks. This somewhat obscure topic has been very useful, for me at least! Even the discarded suggestions are helpful in that they spawn fresh ideas. I

That black Gorrila resin glue looks the business, assuming it likes bonding to acrylic, but won't actually dissolve it.
GuyW

Should be fine I reckon. I used some to stick plastic junction boxes onto plywood pads in the tiller flat on the Lifeboat. They are still there and nothing melted!
Greybeard

Greybeard: It looks like they have changed the formulation. The stuff now listed as their Weld product mixes black resin with a white, not clear hardener so it now dries to a mid grey colour. Unfortunately, that is not the effect I want!

Are these resin systems all the same? I could maybe use a colourless hardener from a different product?
Or maybe add some sort of pigment, though I am not sure what would mix and work without compomising the bond.
GuyW

>>>maybe use a colourless hardener from a different product?<<<
What an interesting idea. AFAIK epoxy is polyester resin, but I don't know enough organic chemistry to say whether one product can be cured with the reagent for another.
But it's an intriguing thought.
As to pigmentation I'd still suggest carbon black, available in fine powder form.
Greybeard

Shavings/ dust from a black pencil?
GuyW

The clear (silicone, can't remember?) seal I used on my quarter light went yellow tint after a couple of years.
Nigel Atkins

If you've got a friendly local windscreen replacement specialist, they'll have oodles of black goo for bonding windscreens to bodywork. They might even let you have an almost-finished cartridge if you speak to them nicely. If it's strong enough to stop a windscreen falling out on the motorway, it ought to stick a badge in place.
Jonathan Severn

Guy,
The Sika polyurethane mastic/adhesive/filler I linked to above is available in black as well.
richard b

I think the Sika mastic type would be good for holding it in place in the bonnet, but I need a thin layer adhesive for this part of the job, bonding the two acrylic parts together.




GuyW

The Sika is a mastic adhesive which obviously will squish down to very thin membrane thicknesses and the EBT+ is a good adhesive.

You can colour araldite with acrylic artists paint - my wife used to do this with some of her jewelery making as it looked like coloured baked enamel.

R.
richard b

Richard,

Why not use proper enamel WG ball is a good source https://www.wgball.co.uk/ . Some years back I got enamel from them and couldn't make up my mind what colours I wanted so bought one of each colour in the smallest sachet size which was quite affordable and some larger sizes for practice, backing enamel, and some colours I was likely to use more of.
David Billington

David,
Yes she did use ceramic/glass enamel as well, but on occasions it was useful where already complicated silver fabrications were involved just to add a spot of colour to a intricate design.
richard b

I do have acrylic artists' paint but it says it is water based, so I thought it might not mix with an epoxy resin.
GuyW

Black Sikaflex
Go to your local windscreen place and they'd squirt a bit around in there--you'll need some masking tape to hold it in place for an hour or two though while it sets up----they'll know how much to hold it, it'll only need a smear really or you could fill the void ,wouldn't matter--probably just a good bead around the edge and squoosh it down
William Revit

Guy
You said in an earlier post that small self tappers or tapped holes might work but would show from above. How about drilling and tapping two shallow holes underneath, where the badge is black from above, then dabbing base of holes with black paint? I realise you'd have to be very careful not to drill through. Or would that show anyway?
Bill Bretherton

I don't think that would work Bill. The surface on the reverse of the badge that is painted has to be near perfect, as any blemishes show from the front. So any drilling or screw point, even if then coated in paint, would be visible and obvious from the front.

Now I have contact surfaces clear of paint for the mounting disc to stick to that should hold well with either Sikaflex or an epoxy, and so long as the adhesive used is black and evenly spread, then that will appear from the front to be the same as the rest of the black painted areas
GuyW

This thread was discussed between 02/12/2020 and 28/12/2020

MG Midget and Sprite Technical index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG Midget and Sprite Technical BBS now