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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - ribcase or T9?

For 3 years I do have a 1300 engine with lots of torque, 0-90 km in 10 seconds. I use a standard ribcase (in 2017 all new bearings, new synchromesh rings) and a 3.9 diff. I drive 7000km/ year, 80% highways. Do I need a ford T9 gearbox or is the ribcase sturdy enough?
Flip
Flip Brühl

I dont have the right type experience Flipas you know but swapping my 1500 4speed gearbox for a T9 was a great & reccomandable improvement revving wise.

Its nowadays a bit of an oldschole modification and T9's arent cheap anymore
But have you checked out Barrat Engineering with their Nissan 5 speedgearbox swap for an Aseries engine?

https://barrattengineering.co.uk/
A de Best

interesting! not cheap. Arie. It is so new there can hardly be experience.
Flip Brühl

If the rib case gearbox still works fine, why change it? Enjoy

I guess you are changing the gearbox oil as per the service intervals in the driver’s handbook and using the oil grade it suggests? I.e. nothing unusual.

You might want to keep a look out for an affordable and good condition Ford Type 9 from the correct donor car now so if you decide to change you have something. Could take a while to find one, but you would not be in a hurry so could wait to get a good one. You could sell it on if you finally decide not to use it. Also if you are very lucky you could find a secondhand adapter bellhousing and assemble the conversion parts in good time.

Cheers
Mike
M Wood

5 speed that fits w/o cutting chassis is nice, but why so expensive? Is it the bespoke flywheel?
AdrianR

If you consider the cost of full kit to instal a Type 9, its not excessively expensive by comparison. The T9 needs a new bellhousing, chassis subframe, gearbox mount, clutch plate and possibly other adaptations to the clutch arrangement and gearstick positioning depending on your preferences. That said, when I installed my type 9 it cost me only £220 (including the gearbox!) as I designed and made much of what was needed other than the actual bellhousing itself. And others (Alan Anstead, for one) have even adapted bellhousings to fit.

It's not immediately obvious why the kit includes for the replacement flywheel, starter and clutch. They maybe desirable to give a complete package upgrade,but are they essential to accept the gearbox?
GuyW

That was sort of my point - nice as it is, this doesn't look like a complicated kit. There is no custom bellhousing, just a flat adaptor plate and most of the other bits appear to be off the shelf.

I guess it's recouping the development effort, support and general costs of doing business in the UK.
AdrianR

I heard that the A series flywheel is too big to fit into the Suzuki bellhousing. Probably the reason for the high cost or on the other hand it may be to be (just) competitive to the T9 offerings.
MG Moneypit

G.S.Escorts at Widnes may have T9.

The usual T9 conversion bellhousings are cast to ribcase spec’. I wanted a smoothcase so adapted a smoothcase bellhousing cut from a smoothcase gearbox. That bellhousing is attached to my 948. I use a stock clutch cover, hybrid clutch plate and a roller release bearing of my own making. I shortened the remote on the T9 although as I am tall it is not necessary and my T9 equipped Sebring Rep I left stock length.
I made my own ‘chassis’ brace for this conversion. Buying a kit can be expensive these days.

The pictures are of a ribcase bellhousing that I put together.





Alan Anstead

One very general point I'd make, and not specific to converting a Spridget to a different gearbox is to try and get hold of a further spare box to the one being installed in the conversion. As we've seen Type 9 boxes are now more difficult to get hold of, and are very expensive when they do appear. My old Riley has a 5 speed box from an Opel Manta, When I did the conversion 23 years ago, these boxes were two a penny (I paid £25!). Now they're very rare and very sought after. If Suzuki Jimny boxes are relatively easy to get hold of now, I can guarantee in ten years time, when you want a spare one to rebuild, they'll be like hens teeth!
Peter Allen

The advantage of the T9 is that its Ford and produced in big numbers and used in many conversions and kitcars already so parts wont be a problem for many years.
The box its self isnt rare but a bit more deer.
Bought a reconditioned one in 2005 for just over 300 pounds
Now its over 600pounds and you need an exchange unit to swap in.

As a commercial kit I think the Suzuki one is a great alternative for the T9 kit.

Remeber that a company spend many hours developing a flawless kit and suffer from overhead, tax and all that mambo jumbo.
Doing it yourself is way cheaper ofcourse but if you dont have the skills, knowledge, tools or time then these commercial kits are a great solution!

Rather expensive but available then not available at all. :)
A de Best

Hi everyone, I thought it may be helpful if I answered some of the questions regarding my Suzuki kit directly

The billet flywheel is unfortunately a necessity. The Jimny box manages to be very compact by having a very shallow bellhousing leaving no room for a bulky A-Series flywheel or clutch. The pre-engaged starter is also needed because of the gearbox design - the original inertia type would mean cutting away too much of the structure of the box to be reliable.

As far as value goes at the end of the day it is a low volume product manufactured entirely in the UK. I have taken a very deliberate decision to not compromise on quality anywhere which does push the price up a bit but also means the kit works and fits. The clutch kit and starter are off-the-shelf branded parts but the majority of the kit is bespoke including the gear shift mechanism, rear mount, propshaft, backplate, flywheel etc etc etc!

Even with a refurbished gearbox it is still cheaper than a Frontline Type 9 conversion but without the drawbacks of cutting the chassis or having a very heavy and dated gearbox. It is also bolt-in in the same way fitting a replacement ribcase is.

As for the future of the kit, availability of gearboxes will eventually decrease over time but for the foreseeable future it looks good with lots of cars still on the road but nearing the end of life.

I'm happy to answer any other questions and the development cars are open for test driving for anyone wanting to try the kits before committing to a purchase.

James
J Barratt

James, the Jimny bell housing looks big enough in diameter, so I presume it is too shallow, front to back for an A series flywheel and clutch? I guess you looked at spacing the box off the backplate but would then have problems with a too short input shaft?

Its a nice looking kit. I would certainly favour it over a T9 at current T9 prices. My earlier comment was only that my £220 T9 installation was done on a tight DIY budget before commercial kits became available at their high prices.
GuyW

Like Guy, I have always enjoyed the DIY approach on our own projects, we doi it for the challenge and enjoyment. That is value enough for the time that goes in, but if we were to charge that time fully James' kit would be a bargain!

As an example, my current mad project is a supercharger into our one owner MGF. Tight space and the need for heat management have combined to rack up the hours. 500 to date. Makes you appreciate development costs! So I'd say that for a bolt-in product with only low volumes ti recoup development costs James' kit is very reasonable.

I might still diy things to my own car, but for a customer I'd fit a well sorted kit like this any time, much cheaper overall. Especially if the need for fettling is at a minimum, as we often find the fettling to get the kit spot-on takes as much time again as the rest of the installation.
Paul Walbran

Guy; the R7ME Jimny bellhousing is of a large enough diameter to accept the original flywheel, and the new flywheel is of the same diameter as the original to maintain as much inertia as possible. The problem is the depth, even with a modern low profile clutch cover the A-Series flywheel protrudes too far. It would be possible to get around this by spacing the gearbox further back but this would mean the cross member would need to be removed, which was my main gripe with the time proven Type 9 conversions and the main objective of the project.

Paul; I am also one who generally prefers designing and making parts than buying them, which is how these products originally came to be. I just took it further and spent even more time than was necessary for a one-off, putting together drawings for every part so others can get the same result with much less effort - it really bugs me if I buy a part or kit that then doesn't fit or work as advertised so work very hard to make sure this isn't the case with anything with my name on it. It's best not to think about the total number of hours invested getting to this stage though!

James
J Barratt

James,
good of you to reply here.

But this isn't your marketplace.

You shouldn't bother with the expert DIYers or tight-fisted owners but sort out sufficient kit numbers to supply to the likes of Moss and MGOC Spares, that's if they haven't been handcuffed into contracts that have yet to expire by a very efficient established business (who in my personal experience could be described as stacks of sh*t, but I'm being over polite there).

I am very glad there is an alternative to the T9 route and I wish you the best of luck.
Nigel Atkins

Flip
At the Practical Classics Show today I found a T9 for sale @ £350. Unfortunately the trader did not want to pass on contact details : for me to give to you.

Shortly after I met with an acquaintance Mark who owns Fisher Services at Sydenham, SE26., where several Masc members get their cars repaired, serviced, & painted.
Mark is confident that he can source you a T9., +44(0)208 857 3020, if required.
Alan
Alan Anstead

This thread was discussed between 15/03/2022 and 19/03/2022

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