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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - T9 G/box install. Cutting the chassis and floor.

Prompted by Glynn's questions about bolts for the chassis, I thought I'd post my variation on the theme of T9 box intallation, re chassis/floor cutting.

When I converted mine yonks ago, I didn't take pictures or make notes. And as I didn't get any instructions with the kit, I just sort of made it up a bit. And then sort of forgot exactly what I used, what I did, and why. Anyway, now I've had the engine out for a rebuild. So I've also taken the opportunity to have the T9 g/box out, in order to swap in an unknown spare box for testing.

Whilst out I've taken some pictures. I can see now that I've cut a lot less than other people have by the looks of others descriptions and pictures, and my memory's been refreshed as to why.

I've only cut the bare minimum out. I remember now, thinking that if I wanted to put the original rib case g/box back in, I didn't want to have to do any welding to do it. I just wanted a bolt back in job, exactly as it was before, -- albeit with a plate to give back some strength. So I only cut the centre section of the chassis out, leaving the original g/box bolt holes in place.

I remember wondering, -- why the chassis had to be cut at all? And the only reason it does, is because there isn't enough height in the tunnel, to lift the T9 g/box mount over the chassis. So I figured that since the T9 g/box mount isn't that wide, I'd only cut out what was in the way of sliding the box in, as you do with the original.

The gap revealed is all that's needed to slide the T9 g/box through, and it leaves the original g/box mounting holes, with their internal strengtheners in place. So I used those, plus two more that drilled in either side of the g/box tunnel, to fix my bracing plate too.

I had the same thought about the floor of the tunnel. Why does so much have to be cut out? So I only cut enough to give access to the T9 g/box mount.

If I ever want to put an original rib case g/box back in again, I can just bolt it back as it was, but retain the new brace to add the stiffness lost by cutting the centre section of the chassis. No welding needed at all.



Lawrence Slater

.
Lawrence Slater

Here's a pic showing the original strengthening plates in the chassis, where the original g/box bolts in.

But not cutting these out, I didn't have to add fillers to the cut ends of the chassis. I remember thinking now, why have I got these filling pieces? Where do they go?

And since then I'd forgotten all about it. Must be going senile, or have already gone. lol.



Lawrence Slater

Lawrence - this is easily the best info I've seen yet on the topic.
Couple of Q's........

How do you line up the propshaft with the GB tailshaft?

Can we see your bracing plate please, and where it goes?

A Canadian bloke I met once claimed the conversion was possible with no cutting at all by installing the GB first and then the engine. I have no idea how he might have achieved it - any ideas?

Well done tho'. How about writing a manual for it?
RS Hughes

A good way of dealing with it Lawrence, I know if I was doing mine again I'd be just cutting a clearance passage, and welding plates over the holes afterwards.
And then making up a separate plate to attach the Ford engine (or suitable gearbox) mounting block to
Bill sdgpM

Cheers Bill.

Hi RS.
I always fit the g/box on it's own. I must have tried to fit it without cutting, but obviously failed.

I wonder if, if the car was high enough off the ground, it would be possible to tilt the box forwards and down, and angle the mount over the chassis as you slide it rearwards, without cutting? I think you'd also have to remove the bellhousing too -- and refit when the box was in --, which would allow the front of the box to tilt down through the chassis rails. The trouble is, it's a heavy box, and there's only me doing it.

Here's a pic showing how I slide the g/box through the gap in the chassis.

I disconnect the propshaft from the diff. Then when the g/box is in place, I just slide it in from the rear of the tunnel. With enough light to see what's what in there, it's very easy to slide the prop into the end of the g/box. Then I reconnect it to the diff.





Lawrence Slater

Here's my bracing plate.

The front 4 bolts are through the chassis - 3/8".

The two middle 3/8" bolts to the rear of the 4 above, hold the rubber mount to the bracing plate. I've got a standard Sierra mounting block. It doesn't control the vertical movement of the g/box very well at all. So I had to add an additional plate under it, with a rubber pad inside, which presses against the bolt that goes into the g/box to hold the mount to it. It works well enough, but now I know that the mk1/mk2 cortina/capri mounting block is better, I'm going to change to one of those.

But in any event, the way I've fitted the mounting block from underneath the bracing plate, to remove the g/box, all I have to do is drop the mounting block via those 2 3/8" bolts, and slide the gearbox forwards and out. I didn't want to be having to drop the entire brace to get the box out, which is what I'd have had to do if I put the mounting block **inside** the brace plate.

The 5/16" bolts are through the floor. 2 each side.

Lawrence Slater

I have to ask, if the purpose of cutting the chassis rail is to give a bit of room for the tranny to clear the cross member

Could the tunnel be cut instead, so the tranny can be tilted upwards and over the crossmember and laid back into place

Id rather cut the top of the tunnel then the cross member any day

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

I looked at that Prop. It could be cut, but I think it ruins the heater cavity at the top of the tunnel. I'm pretty sure that's the limiting factor preventing the g/box being raised high enough to clear the chassis member.

Next time I have mine out -- next week to test another spare T9 g/box -- , I'll have a closer look.
Lawrence Slater

Interesting Lawrence. I did mine in EXACTLY the same way, also without instructions as it was a DIY job, not from a kit.

Being a bit timid and not sure if the car was suddenly going to fold in half, l carefully cut the top hat section off the cross member, leaving the original gearbox mounting bolts and stiffeners in place and making just enough width for the T9 mounting boss to go through. It worked OK but after R & R the box a couple of times l quickly decided that the remaining thin plate that formed the bottom of the box section really wasn't strong enough to contribute anything and was just getting in the way unnecessarily so out came the angle grinder again!

I did think at one stage that l might contrive things so that the gearbox could be removed rearwards without disturbing the engine, which would be a real bonus. But the tunnel itself and heater shelf is too restrictive to allow the box to slide back far enough to disingage the input shaft from the clutch.
Guy W

interesting - I just cut the whole lot out.

When you fit the K in front the box ends up a little further back I think. I then had to cut more out so I could get the box and engine in and out in one piece; with the K bellhousing there is no way on earth you can get the top bolts in with it in the car.

seems like a good solution for an A series car though.

Rob Armstrong

Great minds an' all that jazz Guy? ;). Did you retain the orignal chassis bolts, AFTER the additional cutting of the floor?

Rob.
I think that's the crux of it then. I bought my kit from someone whose main thrust was K conversions. And from my reading, I think it was the K conversion tribe that were the main drivers of the T9 conversion. If as you say the engine has to sit further back, then with the K you don't have a choice, you HAVE TO cut more of the chassis member and the floor out. And from that, all the conversions have largely assumed the same thing, even if it's not explicitly stated why.

And that explains why I have a 'V' shape cut out in the front of my bracing plate then. You can see it in my last picture. I realised it was to accomodate the single rib running back along the g/box, but only if the engine was back far enough to need it. And since the engine didn't need to go back, I figured it was a mistake that it was cut out at all. Now I realise it's for a K conversion, not an A.
Lawrence Slater

<<Did you retain the orignal chassis bolts, AFTER the additional cutting of the floor?>>

No, in the end I lopped off the remnants of the chassis rail flush back to the transmission tunnel sides. The reason was that I made up a box section strengthener that spans as much of the width of the car as I could get, rather than just the narrow plate arrangement that is often used. This then bolts up to the underside of the cross member and I needed access to the inside of that in order to add an internal reinforcing plate that the new cross member would bolt to.
Guy W

Great stuff gents. I'm slowly gathering as much wisdom as I can steal on this topic with the eventual aim of doing a similar conversion.

I wondered about the notch in Lawrence's plate.

I take it that the A series cars are structurally similar in this area to my 1500?

Anyone have experience/thoughts on using a Spitfire O/D box? I realise the propshaft would need to be cut-and-shut as well as the tunnel/crossmember mods and the spline end of the shaft would need to be swapped. Just wondered if anyone has views on the relative merits.Not that I have any issues with the type9. I've driven enough Fords thus equipped to know it's an excellent device - Ford spent millions getting it right after all. But I do like O/Ds.
RS Hughes

Me again. Before I had my 1275 and added the T9, I had a 1500 and I put an O/D gearbox in that. The body modifications needed are much the same as the cross member has to be cut for both conversions.

I did like the O/D gearbox. In many ways more interesting a drive than just adding an extra 5th gear which is a bit "modern". With the O/D set up you are still using the right era of gearbox and the clutchless shift between 3rd and O/D 3rd, and between 4th and O/D 4th just using the little switch on top of the gearknob is a real pleasure.
Guy W

Cheers Guy. Another bit of free knowledge!
I was reminded only yesterday how much I like an OD by my mate's GT6.
Time to start looking.........
RS Hughes

I've downloaded pics of your brace Guy. Prior to my recent activity, I was thinking of altering mine and using your idea, or similar which others have done, and looks very neat. But now I have total recall again, and have rediscovered how easy it is to get my g/box in an out, I'm going to keep what I've got.

Plus, if I ever get the urge, -- ( I admit, unlikely in the extreme, but it might be a good selling point to a potential buyer, when I'm too old to drive this old dog, -- assuming I don't break it for more money instead ) -- I can very easily put my rib case g/box back in again, with no further modification needed.

I like overdrive boxes too. How about mating a Triumph box to an A? Is that possible? Has it been done? at least then it would still be all BMC.
Lawrence Slater

Hi Guy. " --and I needed access to the inside of that in order to add an internal reinforcing plate that the new cross member would bolt to."

I've just remembered how I dealt with that, for my two outer chassis bolts -- the ones either side of the g/box tunnel in the car.

Having drilled up through the chassis via the pre-drilled holes in the brace plate that came with the kit, it was obvious that the chassis would simple crush as soon as the bolts were tightened. So I drilled oversized holes in the TOP of the chassis box section, and dropped exact length thicker wall steel tubes into each hole. The I/D of the tubes is 3/8", but the O/D prevents them dropping right through. Then I have the appropriate sized washers on the top of the tubes, so that they cover the tubes, and a good amount of the chassis too. With the bolts tightened to buggery, the whole ensemble is rock solid.
Lawrence Slater

RS. Just for you. This site is for a 1500 conversion to the T9. http://www.the-wizardsden.com/html/why_5_speed.html
Lawrence Slater

Hi guys,


Just a couple of points on the overdrive route.


as you'll realise the gearbox/overdrive unit is a straight bolt on job to the 1500 lump.


Use the Spitfire/Dolomite clutch plate, the splines are different and swap the clutch fork and pushrod over from the MG box.


The oe crossmember needs cutting away and plating over and a new crossmember needs fabricating to take the Spit overdrive mounting. I had to bulge the tunnel very slighty as the overdrive touched in a couple of places.



I found the prop bolted straight on with no alterations, it's been ok for 20 years as well.


The only other bits needed are a 90% drive and a longer cable for the speedo.


I used the spit gearlever with the built in o/drive switch which works well.



There was an article in last months Mascot by a guy who's just done the conversion.
SR Smith 1

Hi SR. But can a TR o/d box be mated to an A series engine? Do you know if anyone has done that?

Regarding the chassis cut for a 1500-T9 box conversion.

It seems to me that you DON'T need to cut the full width of the chassis out if you don't want to.

Did BL/BMC use the same chassis for the 1500? As far as I know, they did. All they altered were a few minor things to accomodate TR engine mounts, and those bloody ugly rubber bumpers. There are people out there who've put 1275s in a 1500 aren't there? Did they have to move the gearbox mount? Nope, not as far as I know.

So however the engine sits in a 1500, the gearbox chassis mount is in the same location. Thus, you only need to cut out the width of the T9 mount stub, as shown in my 1st post in this thread.
Lawrence Slater

Thanks Lawrence and SR. More food for thought/daydreaming.

I had several Michelotti Triumphs back in the day with O/Ds and tried one only yesterday. I never had any real issues with the 'boxes (only chafed wiring on one of them), although I'm aware of the scuttlebutt that they are prone to solenoid problems.

There again I know the T9 is a splendidly sturdy fellow.

It seems to me that most threads I read on T9 conversions include tales of heartbreak and woe to do with clutches and thrust bearings and so on. Maybe as the Spit box was designed for my engine, if not my car, there'd be less hassle (or "fun" as Lawrence calls it) getting it to fit and work. Plus as I said I just like O/Ds. Click the switch and relax!

I'm going to do a bit of research on ratios &c. James Mather of the site that Lawrence posted has the view that the T9 ratios are better, but doesn't say why.

I have heard there was a 3.5:1 diff gearset as well - does anyone know if that's true?
RS Hughes

"I have heard there was a 3.5:1 diff gearset as well - does anyone know if that's true?" If there was, you would also need more grunt than from a 1500 to make it worthwhile I reckon, at least a standard 1500 anyway. I thought the lowest for our axles was 3.727:1. Riley 1500.

As for clutch/thrust bearing/slave cylinder/Spigot bush hassle, with a T9 conversion, there really shouldn't be any at all. At least not to begin with, and then only minor issues. Not to be confused with the current status of carbon releases for Ribcase boxes.

My own uses the Saab type burton(Titan made) concentric slave. Althoug a bit pricey, I haven't had ANY trouble with it in over 15 years.

My clutch is a standard 7.5 inch Ford Sierra kit. It's still going strong. I recently bought a replacement B&B (Valeo made) kit as a spare, in anticipation of pulling my T9 box out, only to find that there is hardly any wear at all on my friction plate. I'll probably fail before the original clutch does.

My thrust bearing is an SKF roller type, that fits Saabs and Ford Sierra clutches. Again pretty bullet proof. And I've now discovered why I've had squealing in that thrust bearing recently, which I'm hoping I've fixed. -- I'll ressurect the appt thread to post the results.

If you buy a kit, you shouldn't have any worries other than the cost. ;). If you diy it, you can save money by making the adapter by the looks of it, and there are far cheaper slave cylinders. As long as you copy what others have done, and don't stray too far, you'll be fine.
Lawrence Slater

You can fit a triumph box - and therefore also an O/D box onto an A series, but it needs a different backplate and possibly flywheel, though l forget about that bit. There was a Marina supplied with a triumph box at one time, so it should be possible. But its better suited to the 1500 anyway.
Guy W

Special tuning did a 3.5:1 CWP set and they seem to get advertised by some suppliers of replacement CWP but whether they're currently available I don't know as I haven't looked recently.

A quick look turned this up http://www.scparts.co.uk/sc_en/warehouse/tuning-internal-and-external-fixtures/transmission/crownwheel-and-pinion/crownwheel-and-pinon-for-sprite-and-midget.html
David Billington

My 1500 with the O/D box was a late model one with the 3.7 diff and it seemed about ideal. The O/D reduces engine revs by about 20% which gave a relaxed engine speed at M-way road speeds, without loosing too much torque. Although that said my 1500 was mildly tuned (Fast road cam/ Maniflow system, ported and raised comp head etc.)

SR Smith (sorry, I forget your first name), I know that you are a supporter of the O/D way of life, but I don't understand your comment about a 90% speedo drive, unless you are using oversized rear tyres? The speedo drive is on the output of the gearbox, so the addition of the overdrive shouldn't make any difference. It only changes with either different wheel circumference of change of differential.

I agree about the prop shaft. I didn't shorten mine either. It was fairly tight, but did fit and never gave any problems, although most of what I have read says it needs to be shortened. Mine didn't!
Guy W

Lawrence,

box
There is no easy way of mating the Spit gearbox to an A-series lump.


Having said that I'm sure that a Marina/Ital bellhousing may do the job as that car used a the same single rail gearbox.


But the Marina bellhousing is a huge cast iron thing that weighs a ton and would need the battery shelf cutting away I reckon. The way the clutch slave cyl works is a bit odd as well.



Doubt the prop would fit without shortening either.



Mine's been converted for over 25 years and it's been faultless.


As far as I know the factory never offered a 3.5 ratio, tho Moss do list one, but at a price that prob makes an overdrive conversion look cheaper!



A pic of mine going in before a running trip to classic Le mans last year. Its a tight fit, but it does go in! Not that you can see the overdrive in this pic tho.

SR Smith 1

Cheers SR

Here's my crude knock up profile of the T9 g/box in situ.

The longitudinal shape of the T9 box is perfect for the Spridget chassis -- A and TR engines that is. Good on yer ford. :). But i had to add quite a bit of packing to get the box level on the Sierra standard mount.

Lawrence Slater

Speaking of the Propshaft. Mine was supplied in the kit. I assumed it was shortened and had the T9 spline added at the business end.

It measures 71.5CM end to end, and 53.5CM centre of yoke to centre of yoke.

How long are the standard Triumph and Ribcase items?

Lawrence Slater

Hi Guy,


Sorry that bit about the 90% was a typo, what I mean't was you'll need a right angle drive to connect the cable as the drive is really close to the side of the gearbox tunnel, a la spitfire.



I got the speedo recalibrated as well as it read way out.



Regards Steve.


SR Smith 1

Steve. I assume you are referring exclusively to the Triumph box there. The T9 speedo drive can come straight out through the tunnel into the seat area, thence across the floor and up behind the dash. That's how mine is, but Guy's comes through the tunnel into the seat area, and then turns up the side of the tunnel towards the dash. The right angle drive isn't essential, -- it's a tad expensive.
Lawrence Slater

Ah, 90 degree drive then. Not 90%. I should have realised what you meant.

My comment about not needing to recalibrate the speedo applies to the T9, where the speedo take off is on the output shaft anyway, as the speedo calibration relates to the back axle and wheels, not any changed ratios "upstream" towards the engine. I was assuming that the same applies to the O/D box but may well be wrong if the speedo drive takes off upstream of the O/D unit.

Its a long time since I did mine - early 1990's -and I cannot now remember. I know I didn't send a speedo off for recalibration but I do remember swapping bits around between a collection of Smiths speedos that I had got from the scrapyard. So maybe I achieved the same thing!

I also remember paying just £60 for a newly reconditioned gearbox and overdrive unit! It was a real bargain even then! I drove from Cumbria down to Milton Keynes and back one evening after work, because I was that keen to get hold of it before the seller let it go to someone else!

I sold the car around 2001. I do wonder sometimes if it is still around and in use.
Guy W

Guy thanks for feedback on the OD box on the 3.7:1 final drive. My car has a 3.7:1 diff so your comments especially valuable.

Steve I had figured out the typo was for degrees not percent and they are available from assorted specialist breakers. And still available new I think.

Lawrence thankee kindly for the image showing the T9 profile. That is so clear and I totally get it now. Brilliant!

What a great resource this forum is. I learn something new every day. Thanks All.
RS Hughes

OK, here is another shot which may be of interest to some, though it won't help with decisions about which to fit in a 1500!

It shows a standard Rib-case (A series) box and a T9, side by side. The T9 is a good bit longer overall, but this one has my shortened gearshift extension so that the gearlever position on the T9 is nearly in the same position as on the ribcase. Actual difference is around 22mm, although it maybe looks a bit more - parallax effect perhaps?

Guy W

This photo more accurately shows the gearlever positions

Guy W

Also illustrates how much shorter the propshaft has to be with a T9 g/box. I'll get in the loft tomorrow, and measure the length of my ribcase propshaft.
Lawrence Slater

As to the speedo thing.



The later 1800 used the spitfire instruments, so I guess you could try a later spit speedo from an overdrive car, which I think from memory used a 3.63 final drive rstio, quite close to the 3.7 of the midget.






A pic of the console area showing the overdrive switch in the gearknob

SR Smith 1

There's thread drift and thread drift. Usually there's a reasonable progression to a linked subject. But this is a lulu.

All the way from "T9 G/box install. Cutting the chassis and floor.", as shown in my 1st post, -- to instruments consoles via speedo drives. Tenuous lol.
Lawrence Slater

Top picture.
Standard length of an A series propshaft is 61.25cm to yoke centres.

Bottom picture.
Shortened for a T9 g/box, the propshaft is 53.5cm to yoke centres.



Lawrence Slater

Interesting.
The dimension you give for the original equates to 24 and 7/64 inches (or rather about 5 thou short of it).

Is it likely that's what BMC had in mind?
RS Hughes

Assuming I measured it very accurately of course. :). I'd imagine it's nominally 24" for the standard, and on mine, exactly 24.1/8"

Does anyone know the length of the unaltered 1500 propshaft? Guy mentioned earlier that it can be fitted as is. So it can't be far off either way, of 53cm yoke to yoke centres.
Lawrence Slater

1500 propshaft "fitted as is" referred to an O/D gearbox installation in a 1500. Not a T9 in a 1500
Guy W

Ah. Cheers Guy. I didn't read that properly -- no pun. ;).

But I have just found your full description of the installation for that conversion, and posted it in a new thread along with another description. -- For easy referencing from the archives sometime in the future, by persons unknown. :).
Lawrence Slater

I downloaded the top 2 pictures from James Mather's web page describing his 5 speed conversion. http://www.the-wizardsden.com/html/tunnel_mods.html

As you can see in the bottom shot, my '66 Sprite doesn't have that horizontal reinforcement. And I'm pretty sure, without getting under it, that my '73 Midget doesn't have it either.

But I've found several more pics with it on 1500 Midgets.

So what's it for?


Lawrence Slater

Guy, with your shortened gearshift extension did you have to cut away any of the transmission tunnel to allow the gearlever to come up into the cockpit?

I did the same shortening trick as you but I had to knick an inch out of the original aperture.

Robin

Strangely as I've gotten older I've actually regretted my 5-Speed change, purely as I've become a sucker for originality. Now I've chopped a couple of chunks out my original shell it'll never be the same!
Robin

Hi Robin, yes I did, but only about 20mm.

What l did was to drill out the spot welds and remove the reinforcing flange around the hole. Clearly visible in your photo. I then moved the flange rearwards by its own width (3/4") and rewelded it. Then added a little fillet to fill the gap that resulted at the front.

I know what you mean about modifications. That's why l bought my Frog - the plan being to rebuild the Frog as a relatively unmolested version
No point in having 2 cars modified in the same fashion. Time will tell which l prefer driving, but l need to get on with the frog first !
Guy W

Looking at your photo l would guess that your engine mounting rubbers are pushed to the limit of their rearwards adjustment
Guy W

Robin.
That's partly why I didn't want to chop out the original g/box mounts. And as I now have a Midget too, that has a reasonable original g/box, I too wouldn't mind having a decent ribcase in my Sprite.

However. There is no getting around it. The T9 is a much nicer box, even if the change isn't quite a slick. It's completely quiet, syncrho 1st, you get the advantage of the lower revs in 5th, and you dump the carbon thrust. Although that last reason isn't really valid, as my home made roller release in my Midget works a treat.

All that said though, if I could have got a really good, long lasting ribcase 15 or so years ago, I probably wouldn't have T9'd the Sprite.

Anyway. What about that horizontal bolt reinforcement in my last set of pictures?

Does anyone know what it's for? Anybody?

Lawrence Slater

I'll be under the midget tomorrow Lawrence. I'll see if I can figure it out. Wish me luck!
RS Hughes

Cheers RS. I'm curious.
Lawrence Slater

I've never actually driven a Sprite/Midget with a ribcase gearbox, my conversion was done as part of a basket-case restoration. My justification for doing the conversion must have been that "it seemed like a good idea at the time"!

My '69 doesn't (didn't!) have the horizontal bolt.
Robin

Okay Lawrence I just crawled out from under. Here's what I found.

It's not a bolt !!!

It's a welded in tube with a bore of about 3/8" I'd guess. Like you I thought WHY? An why only on the starboard side and not to port as well if it's a reinforcment of some sort?

Hmmm....

Could it be a wireway? Or a way thru for brake pipe?

Cue headscratching and toothsucking.....

So I phoned Chic Doig's (I wanted to talk gearboxes anyway) and he said No Idea - I've never noticed it......

Then just before hanging up he asked if it had been an American car.
Nope.

He told me that in some parts of USA anyway the engine had to have a restraint (he thinks wire rope maybe) in case of a shunt to stop the engine departing out the front of the car. He says it's possible a restraint went thru here attached to engine and G/B, but that it's not gospel - just speculation.

That's all I know. Any American members able to shed any light?

On the other hand I did find the cause of the irritating rattle under the car. About 8" of galvanised fence wire hooked around the exhaust. Better there than in a tyre!

RS Hughes

Well that's curious then.

Obviously it's not just (or even maybe) reinfoircement. Since it sits proud each side, and is hollow. It does look like it's intended a a pass through for something.

Anything about it in any manuals anywhere?
Lawrence Slater

I had thought of an exhaust mount initially but both A series and Triumph exhaust the same side. A guess would be an engine/gearbox restraint of some sort as I recall the US regs required something of that sort in the event of an accident to prevent the unit moving too far from their standard location.
David Billington

Found this.

US spec only.

You need to scroll down a fair way, but it's there.

Cable from frame (chassis) to clutch housing.

Slightly confusing photo until you realise it's upside-down.


http://www.spridgetguru.com/TA0054.html
RS Hughes

I never thought to check if it's threaded inside. Just poked a thin screwdriver thru it.
RS Hughes

Ah very good. Cheers RS.





Lawrence Slater

Yep - mystery solved.

At the bottom of the page is a list of people who contributed knowledge to the project.

One of the people who gets a name check is.......

Prop!
RS Hughes

Ha. Well done Prop. lol.
Lawrence Slater

This thread was discussed between 02/05/2015 and 06/05/2015

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