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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Things to do before the Rear Axle Goes Back In

As you can see, I've been assembling the rear suspension. Once the axle's in, there's a LOT less space, so can you think of anything else I ought to do?

Nick and Cherry Scoop

I'd put the prop shaft into the tunnel since it can be a little awkward with the axle in the way.
Martin

Install the exhaust pipe/muffler

Add some rust... it's way to clean and healthy looking

Prop
1 Paper

Have you put the fuel line in. Its easier with the axle out.
Bob Beaumont

Brake line also ?

I assume its fully painted underside already, so I think I would give the body bits in the axle zone a coat or two of any wax protection proposed while its still good and easy.

R.
richard b

Thanks All. Good suggestions, except I don't understand exhaust pipe/muffler, which might make jacking the axle into position rather difficult. Prop - does your exhaust go over the top of the axle?

Any more suggestions about shielding or filling the spring cave would be most welcome. Mine was just full of oily dirt. Has anyone tried coating the walls with oyl, and then filling with urea foam?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Haven't been following your build threads too closely - but does not item 13 do the job?
https://tinyurl.com/y8duq3vo
David Smith

Not currently available, David. I've pressed the 'notify me' button, but I'm not holding my breath.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

David yes it would help if available. As far as I know it has not existed for some time, although I guess one could be made.
Bob Beaumont

Ashley Hinton makes these in SS (or did).
Motley 5

Very unfriendly website, though. What's the secret?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Hmmm,

Yes my exhauste pipe and muffler goes over the top of the axle...i just assumed they all did until the midget 1500

but I guess not all midgets are created equal

71 American midget

Prop
1 Paper

Nick,
did you try this - http://stores.ebay.co.uk/ashleyhintonmgparts2002/

Altho' I didn't see them there at the moment I might have missed them or the previous batch sold out.
Nigel Atkins

They're straightforward to make yourself and I did so myself when I rebuilt my frogeye back in 1984- 1985. At the time I didn't know they were a standard item but it seemed a good idea to add something to keep the road crap out from around the springs and mounting box.
David Billington

Ashley's contact details within.
www.mg-cars.org.uk/ah
Motley 5

Thanks. What a lot of useful stuff. Haven't checked prices with Moss etc. yet.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I believe Moss etc use his products so could be slightly cheaper.
Motley 5

Nick, In that photo, the black finish on the rear bulkhead - is that an anti-rust treatment / protection?
Which one did you choose?
GuyW

Trying to find out, Guy. The painter did it, after the shot blasting. It's thick and grey (Schutz?) with something black on top. I need to know, so that I don't do anything silly in the near future, when it needs mending after I've done something cack-handed in the reassembly.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Still thinking about ways of sealing the spring cave mouth. I really fancy sealant, but cannot think of an effective way of forming a pointing table. Unless I stuff the cave with paper or something similar.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Nick,

What about an expanding foam and then applying shutz or a waxoyl type product over that.
David Billington

At one time BMC experimented with filling the sills and windscreen pillars of Minis with a new revolutionary product - expanding foam. I think it was also tried on Austin/ Morris 1100s. They abandoned the idea as it held moisture and accelerated, rather than inhibiting, rust.
GuyW

It's a thought, David, though I would oyl liberally first, then inject the foam. But I expect Guy is right. I wonder if the best solution would be to protect the inside of the cave, and then fit something to discourage entry of mud etc, rather than to seal it up entirely.

Then there's Rob's expensive solid grease method. It might come to that.

BTW, I see from my latest Practical Classics that quarter-elliptics are now available from BCC, at £455.98. BCC's web site unfortunately doesn't seem to know about that yet - still £650ish.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Nick, just wondering, when you first removed the springs was there much mud/ debris in the "caves" i.e. do they actually fill up? If not, why not just dose them with waxoyl? (If they do fill up then maybe rubber flaps made from, say, old inner tube).
Bill Bretherton

I am going to use Bilt Hamber product, Dynax S50
http://www.bilthamber.com/dynax-s50
for sills and cavities. And I plan to douse the spring boxes liberally with this wax-type substance using the extension probe that they provide to get the traetment up where the sun doesn't shine.

I want to then make up some sort of seal to close off and keep out the worst of road muck. Either something like the part 13 closing plate that David Smith linked to which looks easy to make in SS. Or I think a similar part made from thick leather and fixed like a curtain should make a good solution.
GuyW

Guy,

I wasn't thinking of filling the cavity but just applying enough to seal the gaps, I suspect easier might be any sort of closed seal compressible foam as a gap filler. I made an item like 13 mentioned earlier and it seems to do the job, plenty of waxoyl around the area as well.
David Billington

I don't know if i favour filling the cave. I liberally coated the area with Bilt Hamber after installing the springs, and periodically refresh it. I think i prefer to leave the area open to allow it to dry out. Certainly I have seen no sign of corrosion in the last 7 years. But then its not used on salty roads or during the winter so is not exposed to the worst extremes and probably never will be. When i bought it in 1976 it was my only car and was used all the time and left outside. yes it had corrosion when it was restored in 2010 but it was by no means that bad. Modern preservatives are so much better nowadays, just consider Modern euro boxes made of thin steel, they seem to last fairly well .
Bob Beaumont

I did shovel a fair bit out, Bill (some of it foreign!). But the walls and ceiling were in very good shape. I reckon the whole area had been oyled, but not again for nearly ten years: I bought her and drove her all over the place without ever looking at the spring mountings.

So Bob's preference looks good too, especially as the back (front) ends of the springs were a bit of a mess when they came out; without any sealing-off, one would be able to dig around there in the future, and re-lubricate.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Yes I agree, I wasn't favouring filling the "cave". Quite the opposite, I was saying that BMC tried foam filling of voids and abandoned the idea. That Bilt Hamber version of "waxoil" says that it is self-healing so it should cover well and create a waterproof skin over any rust-prone surfaces. My reasoning is that a leather curtain would prevent dirt getting blasted directly into the cavity, whilst allowing water to drain out again.
GuyW

The axle is back in place, and it was a furstrating job. Pretty pointless asking for tips after the event, but is there an approved order of events for it? I'm talking of course about the four pins that have to be threaded through their bushes, and I did them both springs first, then radius arms. The last one, with three fixed points already secured, took me a long time.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Nick, I followed the reverse procedure set out in the manual, which is what you appear to have done. Fit the upper link to the chassis, then jack the axle into position. Replace the shackle pins and then the upper link to the axle bracket. Your right getting the last pin in is a bit of fun!!
Bob Beaumont

What about the check straps? Have you connected them yet Nick and did they reach OK? On mine they dont reach as it is with the car up in the air still. I am assuming that when it is on all fours the springs will deflect and the straps then reach.

But maybe I have the wrong straps as I believe there are 2 lengths available? Slightly surprising as I know they are called check straps, but do they really restrain the springs from returning to a relaxed, non laden position? That would be quite a lot of strain on them.
GuyW

They fitted after I jacked the diff a little, Guy. Only a little, though, and I would expect, when the weight of the back end is on them, that they will be relaxed. Presumably they are a last resort when you leave the ground altogether!

I managed to get the last pin through the channel flange, into the loose bush, into the metalastic bush, but the hole in the outside flange was off-centre. In the end, I cut a piece of wood to go (just too long) between the spring cage and the bracket, and tapped it down until the holes lined up. I wish I had thought of it sooner.

No torque figures for any of the fastenings in this area, but I assume nipping them up tight with the right-sized spanner will do the job.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Yes no torque settings but tighten the nuts when back on the ground and you have bounced the car up and down a couple of times to settle the bushes
Bob Beaumont

Those link bolts cannot turn as they have a section of the head shaped to fit a crescent shaped lug. So the nut simply needs to be tight enough not to vibrate loose.
GuyW

Maybe the check straps ultimately stop the prop shaft from hitting the tunnel floor.

Thanks, Bob. I probably would have forgotten to do that. The shackle pins have Simmonds nuts, so I don't envisage any loosening there. Would you use Nylocs on the top links?
Nick and Cherry Scoop

Nick Mine has plain nuts with a spring washer on all the pins and nothing has ever moved. A nyloc can do no harm I guess.
Bob Beaumont

I saw the painter today, and got some useful stuff from him. Half a tin of RD4, a jam jar of hardener and some measuring beakers, so that I can brush paint the floors, and a bottle of Schutz for repairs to the underside. Guy - regarding your question above, I think this Schutz is probably quite common. By the way, I was wrong about the two coats: the grey layer is zinc phosphate primer and the black topcoat is the Schutz.

I'd be grateful for any tips (or precautions) for when I pour out the paint and hardener, stir it with a stick, and start painting. Is it dangerous?


Nick and Cherry Scoop

is it 2-pack isocyanate or 2-pack acrylic? The former is nasty (cumulatively kills you) and the latter is OK.
David Smith

Now Nick, I am sure you have only posted that photo to display your choice in wall art! Or maybe you just have a 'thing' about voluminous bloomers?

Anyway - what a nce shiny red your car is! If the paint supplied uses a hardener it is most likely to be an isocyanate - which is the nasty stuff. Though there are hardeners available now that are less toxic. But even the isocyanate stuff is apparently OK for brush painting if you treat it with care. It's the atomised form of the hardener that is so dangerous. From the on-line advice punblished by the H & Safety Executive, it can be brush painted but you still need to use eye protection, gloves, a breather mask etc. and good ventilation.

I followed that advice and had no ill effects after although even with an approved face mask I could still taste a metallic dryness on my lips. I wouldn't want to use it too often.

2:1 was the same ratio I used for brush painting, plus I added about 10% of the special thinners as used unthinned it semed to clog the paintbrush bristles. Brushes were a once used, throw away item; there's no benefit in trying to clean them.
GuyW

My neighbour used some 2 pack International yacht varnish to brush paint his steam engine and that was isocyanate and he was advised it was fine to brush paint it in a ventilated area but never try to spray it.
David Billington

What's a breather mask, Guy?

I think the poster came with Practical Classics. I do like it: it pre-dates The New Puritanism.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

No, really - what is a breather mask? I've got those little papery things with a plastic filter on the front, a nose pinching strip and two pieces of elastic.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

There is a whole range of them for filtering different things. Face mask things better than nothing if you use a vapour one. I also have one of the bigger style with the replaceable canister filters supposed to be ok for spraying isocyanates though l am not the confident about that. Maybe ok for occasional quite jobs.
GuyW

David, that is what the HSE recommend. There is a big difference in the toxicity risk between brushing and spraying. I wouldn't accept dubious safety advice from anyone with a vested interest, but HSE are usually over cautious so if that is their advice then l am ok with that. FOR BRUSHING. Still needs care in handling though.
GuyW

Thanks for the advice. I spoke to my chap today and he confirmed that it is isocyanate 2-pack. He reckons mask and gloves, the former especially if I'm going to put my head in the footwells, and all the doors and windows open. And no vigorous brushing that twangs the bristles.

I shall see about a better mask in the morning.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

I like 3M masks, as they fit and seal well.

I don't know how suitable this would be for your application

https://www.screwfix.com/p/3m-4251-maintenance-free-organic-vapour-particulate-respirator-ffa1p2rd/13038
Dave O'Neill 2

Just as a matter of interest, the paint tin says "ACRYTHANE 2K high solids acrylic", so presumably the really nasty stuff is in the activator.

Thanks, Dave. My local builder's merchant had something like that, with two big replaceable filters, and the thing that really sold it to me was the big soft silicon face seal: that's the bit I find most difficult to achieve with masks, especially over a beard.
Nick and Cherry Scoop

This thread was discussed between 15/01/2018 and 02/02/2018

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