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MG Midget and Sprite Technical - Track Rod End stiffness!

Hi All,
checking over my 1275 Mk III prior to its MOT on Thursday, I found that the steering gaiter was starting to look a bit perished on the off side but ok on the nearside. I got new track rod ends & a new gaiter kit and replaced ( eventually) the off side so it SHOULD be ok for the MOT , but on the near side I cannot free off the track rod end. I used a Mole grip on the off side and that was just about OK but all its done on the near side is to scratch the track rod- my question is what is the best tool to grip the track rod properly? - could I ask for your comments.I left the nearside track rod end on and doused it in releasing fluid.
I seem to remember from mini days a pipe wrench ( NOT a stilsons wrench) - could I ask for your comments as to the best tool to use?
cheers all
col
colin frowen

Does your track rod not have a couple of flats on it?

Which rack do you have - Minor or Triumph?
Dave O'Neill2

Colin,
sorry but I'm in a bit of a rush now, so quickly -

be wary of piss poor quality of rubber gaiters and TRE boots that wont last to the next MoT from even favoured suppliers

pipe wrench, you're thinking of adjustable (or water pump) pliers, not necessarily a good tool to use if you don't have to
Nigel Atkins

Maybe a 4 inch angle grinder...if you think it can pass, or bribe the MOT inspector... leave it alone

What.normally happens in this situation, one thing leads to a next, then a next, and before you know it your 60 hours in and $2000

If you feel you really must go down this road, be prepared to go all in

The problem is PO dont take care of the suspension the way it should be, so a lot of damage occures thats not noticeable untill you get into it, and you start disturbing the bees nest....once your in, theres no turning back, you will have to see it thur to the end Or park it under a tree or in a barn for the next 8 years

Another option to break it free is heat as in Oxy/actlene torch

Good luck.....

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Strange for them to be so tight.Once the locknut is undone they should be free to turn. You could try heating first. If you are worried about the damage caused by stilsons, you could try cutting a piece of copper tube about one and a half inches long, cut down one side then pot it over the track rod then use the stilsons.
HALL JOHN

Hi
Dave asked what steering rack I have - Minor or Triumph......ummmmm dunno !! - how can / could I tell?
Didn't have the option but HAD to replace the old boot as it had perished / cracks in the end and would have failed the MOT.I really didn't want the grief of doing the replacements- honest!
Thanks for all suggestions
cheers
colin
colin frowen

Pipe wrench or stilsons. Works for lots of things. If sourcing new get a mid sized one and some tube cut ready to maybe 3 lengths to lengthen the handle to increase ma as necessary.
Dave Squire 1500

I think dave means a cheater bar

I think water and salt works its way into the threads over time and it becomes rust welded into place

Which rack...the transition occoured around 1972, in that area the later rack was a triumph the early rack was the minor

The easist way to tell, is look at the graiter boots on the car, if the boots are the same size on both sides rack where the boot attaches (right and left side of the car) ... its a minor

If the graitor boot that attaches to the rack is a differant size (right and left side) on the rack, then its a triumph

Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Colin,
as Prop has put and look at the gaiters (unless they're generic-forced-to-fit-replacements like mine, then you won't be able to tell this way)

subject to your fitted rack being the original type then in the Driver's Handbook it tells you the transition was at car G-AN5-114643 - what a jolly useful book, loaded with information (page 61 in my copy)

diagram of Triumph gaiters, RTC2218/RTC2219 - note the big inboard opening on the RH (RTC2219) gaiter - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRID005781

PS
always use a correct sized spanner where you can, I can't remember the size though sorry, my TREs have raised flat edges IIRC
Nigel Atkins

As Nigel says there are definitely flats on 1500 tre's but mine were so bad that it took a lot of force to undo them and I resorted to the stilsons. My tre's were definitely shot so the stilson marks were being thrown away.
I always reassemble this type of thing with plenty of an appropriate grease and keep checking that all parts of the suspension are greased up properly.
Tracking check (feel / examine the tyre after a few miles) to save rapid tyre wear is mandatory after reassembly.
Dave Squire 1500

Hi Thanks all
Rack is the Triumph asymmetric type from the description above( well done Greg at Sussex Classic parts for sending me the right kit!)
Thanks all, will go for the ticket and do the near side next week.
Bloody MG's!!
:-)
Col
colin frowen

Colin,
I'd be very interested to see a photo of the gaiters you were sent if possible

as the ones I was sent were the generic type that required gradual step up in stretching using various size bottles and hair dryer, then leaving the largest size overnight and fitting the next day when the weather was hot and again using the hair dryer for more heat

ETA: good point about tracking
Nigel Atkins

Colin

Sounds like you are having fun!

Hardly the most orginal of 'tips' I know, but I have found scraping all the dirt and grime off the TRE and thread around it and its lock nut, then backing off the locknut if possible, followed by disconnecting the TE from the hub and allowing it to drop and then liberally applying proper penetrating fluid (ie. Plusgas, not WD40)to run down the trackrod thread into the TRE thread. Leave overnight and repeat the soaking in the morning if necessary.

Time and Plusgas, if you have both and patience can help.

Cheers
Mike

PS I'd echo Prop's caution that'you are entering a world of pain [and expense]'. My experince of suspension work moving into rebuild.

I am wondering the length of my short car rebuild (nearly 2 years for 3 months work) may mean having to replace the replacement TRE boots as they have been a year on in the garage and they are probably junk quality!
M Wood

Hi Nigel,
Got my gaiters from Greg at Sussex Classic car parts- I've not had any problems with anything I have bought from him.
I REALLY would not have entered this world of pain if I hadn't had to!
Cheers all, for all your advice & help
Col
colin frowen

Colin,
so did I, the gaiters that failed were on the brand new Argentinian steering rack I'd bought from there so I was sent a generic set of gaiters as replacements, one in particular didn't fit properly but as I couldn't get a set of the correct gaiters that could be trusted to last more than 6 months I made do and made the generic ones fit

a chap at Rimmers was honest enough to say the ones they had were from South Asia and not of the best quality

but perhaps things have improved now

below are the ones I was sent, if you get these too let me know and I'll tell you how I managed to fit the awkward one



Nigel Atkins

Hi Nigel,
That looks just like the set I got from Greg...I just swore a lot and used brute force to get the off side one on.
You are right about cheap knock offs though - I bought some "Champion" spark plugs from the net...one split in two across the middle of the insulator...! Changed to NGK now!
Cheers colin
colin frowen

Hi
I used a grinder with a "slitting" disc to carefully cut along the length of the threaded section of the TRE, no need to go all the way through to the threads of the rack though, then use a large flat screwdiver to prise the cut open a bit, this should loosen everything up enough to be able to unscrew it
S G Macfarlane

S.G.

Thank you, and gold star sticker to you...

Thats exactly what I wanted to say above, but I couldnt find the words in 900 characters or less


Prop
Prop and the Blackhole Midget

Colin,
you're a lot better than me then as I struggled to fit the r/h/s one despite pre-stretching it in stages the day before and leaving it stretched overnight

I meant to put there are flattened areas on the track rod to put a spanner on to give you something to push against with the spanner on the TRE - and that using adjustable pliers unless you have mechanics or plumbers forearms are difficult to grip very tight and turn at the same time, they tend to slip and scuff things up

plenty of time soaked penetrating/releasing fluid such as PlusGas (ordinary WD40 is not as good) then use the correct sized spanners, slightly tighten to break muck/rust seal before undoing

if that doesn't work soak with penetrating/releasing fluid again and leave overnight to try the next day

if you managed to get those gaiters on you'll get the TREs off

my replacement gaiters are just over 2 years old and are starting to show signs of crazing
Nigel Atkins

This thread was discussed between 18/03/2014 and 20/03/2014

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