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MG MG Y Type - Fitting a new top hose without tears - any hints?

Having decided that the cracks in my top hose were now past the point of being ignored, I removed the hose (it was a good decision) and am now wondering what the best approach to fitting the new one is - hence this post.

As the hot-water exit pipe from the thermostat and the header tank connection are not in line (presumably they are on the TC and TD?), and the clearance between the two is far less than the length of pipe required, I'm wondering if anyone has any sneaky tips for doing this.

It must be advancing years or something, but I cannot remember how I did this last time, when the car was being assembled (Well, it was more than 15 years ago!).

Should I remove the thermostat housing and the cylinder head exit elbow together, or just the thermostat housing? And what's the best way to accommodate the necessary angle that the pipe must adopt between thermostat and header tank, without putting unnecessary stress on everything?

Any thoughts, tips, pointers or dire warnings much appreciated, as usual!

Tim
Tim Griggs

Tim

Undo the radiator steady bars either side of the radiator (3 nuts and bolts either side) so that you can rock the radiator back and forward a little. You will need to slide the clamps over the hose and have them well slack then mount the hose on the radiator and shove it up as far as you can before moving the radiator back over the top of the thermostat house and sliding the hose down over the thermostat house extension. It is way easier with two people to do this as one can hold everything in line while the other moves the hose and hose clamps into position for tightening.

Once you have done that you can then adjust and tighten up the two side steady bars.

Paul
Paul Barrow

Use a smear of washing up liquid - not too much or bubbles will keep coming out of the overflow!
B Mellem

Thanks guys: useful guidance so soon. Ted Knight has referred me to Neil's extensive photo diary of his rebuild on the MGCC site - and this suggests that the alignment of thermostat outlet and header tank inlet should be better than they are on my car (see pic attached below of the two stubs with top hose removed).

Does anyone else think this a bit odd? I know that the radiator and engine are sitting where they should, but from the pic it looks as if the engine ought to be about 2" further forward, or the radiator the same distance back. Neither of these is realistic - the engine and radiator mountings on the chassis fix their positions.

Is it possible the thermostat elbow is not from a Y? I'm scratching my head a bit here...

Tim Griggs

Hi Tim

Yes your angle looks completely wrong there and I have heard of this problem before so it is quite possible that you have the wrong front piece, maybe from a TC or a TF as these are different to TD/Y/YB??

I would suggest you call Paull Banyard and or Mike Green at NTG and ask them if they would be so kind as to send you on Sale or Return
G213 - gasket - 1 off
B310A - Water Outlet cylinder head - 1 off
G887 gasket - 1 off
so that you can compare angles? It is hard to guess from your image as to what the angle is of the outlet from the cylinder head.

Alternately, if you can post a picture where you can get a more perpendicular view of the outlet from the cylinder head we may be able to tell from that.

Certainly someting is not right, and if it is not the engine outlet, it could be the radiator fitting. Take a look at that for me please and see if it looks as if some one has been working on it. It may have been done at some stage of putting a new header tank on the radiator by a previous owner.

These last two would be preferable to doing before you speak to NTG. If you can find a protractor and measure the angle of the header tank feed I will also try to get an angle reading on one of mine for you too.

Paul
Paul Barrow

Hi Tim,
It looks to me that you have a TC outlet. The TC has a much smaller angle to the face of the head than the TD. Without recognizing the difference, I tried to do what you tried, with the same results. I have a picture of the TD & the TC outlets and you can see the difference in the angles. I'll forward it to you when I figure out how to send the picture.

George
George Raham [TD4224]

George

Can you post it to the BBS? When you are logged in to make a posting there is an Upload link at the bottom of the box area where you type the message (just below where is says Upload a picture. When you click on that it will take you to browse your My Documents folder and you can then navigate to where you have the picture stored.

If the picture is bigger than 2mb you will have problems because the server will reject the picture. If that is the case, you can email it to me by attaching it to an email - methods vary between email client programs. Again, if you have problems, email me with a note of what program you use for your emails and I will find some instructions to walk you through how to attach a file/picture. Once you send it to me, I will reduce it and post it.

Paul
Paul Barrow

Hi Tim

I have a TC and the Y Type and it is almost certain that you have a TC type elbow. It is amazing that the old top hose worked perhaps that is why it split. Your dimensions stack up, the TC elbow angle is steeper because the header tank is, by eye, 1.5 to 2 inch nearer the engine block than the Y.

I hope you have an old Y type elbow in the spares box!

Reards
Brian
b r hough

Hi Tim

With two others now confirming my thoughts on you not having the corrrect elbow, I would go ahead and place the call to Paul and Mike at NTG and ask them to send the parts.

Just before you do that though, check you can slacken off the 2 nuts and 2 bolts that hold the outlet onto your cylinder head, and also that you can slacken off the 2 nuts on the studs for the thermostat housing. No point in getting the other bits only to find you cannot get one or more of the old bits out cleanly.

You may also need to get some XPAG red engine paint from them if the new bits do not come pre-painted (I believe they are bare metal) so save shipping and get it all it in one hit.

Really do think now that this is your problem and as Brian Hough said it is amazing you were able to make the old hose reach ... at all!

Paul
Paul Barrow

Thanks for all the info so far, everyone: another tribute to the collected wisdom to be found here!

It certainly looks like the wrong elbow - which must have been on the car since about 1955, as that's when the engine was replaced according to the logbook! There was no evidence of the water pump or thermostat having been disturbed between then and when the car was rebuilt forty years later.

I can't see from NTG's web-based catalogue what the difference in elbows might be, but I'll call them and see what can be done.

George: I'll email you directly about getting a copy of the pic you mention.

I'll upload a progress report and pic when I've got a suitable replacement elbow.
Tim Griggs


I have always had a mislignment of the two outlets and it causes no end of problems when replacing hoses...not sure whether there is any difference in the outlet pipe on the c/head between models T and Y. It may be due to mis-alignment of the radiator mounting bracket on the chassis or the need for those rubber/metal washers under the mountings on the bracket that bolts to the bottom of the radiator? Let me know how you get on and include some more photos on the BBS please. The big problem is that if you have the radiator not seated correctly that throws out the bonnet alignment. The radiator chrome grille bolts to the radiator and if the radiator is out so is the grill and therefore the bonnet..mine is a bit out and always has been for reasons I never figured out!
D MULLEN

Tim,

A silicone top hose would probably do the trick as they are easier to fit.

Regards,

JOHN
J D JAMES

Tim,
My apoligy for taking so long to get this to you. I've had some problems with this "thing" and I think it been resolved, so I'll try it again.
George Raham [TD4224]

Sorry Tim, it's still not working. I'm glad you received other comments about your problem and you now know about the TC/TD outlet difference.

George
George Raham [TD4224]

Tim,
I'm not giving up. Maybe this will work

George Raham [TD4224]

Thank you George - a picture really is worth 1000 words.

I took George's picture into Photoshop and have cut the two necks to place them side by side. I then took a line down each side of the TD/Y of the thermostat house and have moved those lines on top of the TC one.

So in conclusion Tim, I think it is more than clear you currently have a TC outlet!

Thank you George for that great picture.

Paul

Paul Barrow

Dont throw the old elbow away since it could be just right for the 5 speed gearbox conversion if you get round to fitting one. The engine is positioned 10mm further forward. Bryan
B Mellem

This thread was discussed between 11/03/2012 and 19/03/2012

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