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MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MG Y Type - Fitting wire wheels to a YT

I believe that this has been covered before though I am quite sure when or where. No doubt someone will point this out in due course!

I am aware that MGB parts have been used in some conversions. However, this has generally followed the fitting of disc brakes which is not a route that I wish to follow.
I would like to consider bolt on wires, these fit to an adaptor and enable the existing wheels to be refitted straightforwardly. I am aware that Edward Vandyk who has recently acquired a YT (that was advertised in Safety Fast and has also purchased the YT that was on eBay until a couple of weeks ago, that this car does indeed have chrome wires as fitted to an Aston Martin and has an adapter which also enables the original wheels to be fitted. I will contact Edward once the YT arrives to see what has been done to achieve the conversion.

What is appealing is.that conversion uses a five bolt fitting and not the four bolt that both the MGA and B use.The Australian YT has 17 inch wheels whilst the A and B of course have 4 bolt fittings and 15" wheels

As an aside I met several Y owners on the Octagon stand at the NEC last weekend where I was fortunate enough to have the YT on show. These included the new owner of YB 0251, who has discovered that the car was originally painted silver s grey and he was seeking confirmation of whether he should repaint it this colour. Martin Lister(a lng standing Octagon member) and I pointed out that it was his car and therefore there are no 'do's or don'ts but agreed that it would be a worthwhile route to follow. I also met Neil Coombes, Mike Silk, Peter Veilvoye, Mike Brown who has 2 YT's, Anil Kohtil (YT), two more who are restoring YTs in the UK, Edward Vandyk another YT owner who bought the red YT from Beech Hill Garage in Abingdon a few years ago and 4 or 5 other Y owners. What is noticeable is the increasing number of YTs in the UK! Well over 40 now.
I attach a pic of the YT on the stand on setting up day (to follow)

Great fun and many thanks to the Octagon for allowing the Y to be present in the company of the ex Pat Moss TD, a TF and SA.

Have fun Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Hopefully here is a photograph taken on the set up day prior to the opening of the Classic Car Show at the NEC (which I believe is the 35th or 36th) since its first showing in 1980. The pic shows the YT parked next to the ex-Pat Moss TD and a TF. A lovely cream SA was the fourth car on the stand.

Ably organised by MG Octagon Chair Brian Rainbow and Secretary Pete Moore it brought together a broad range of octabods and was a thoroghly enjoyable experience.

Thanks to the Octagon and especially Brian and Pete. The Club will be at the MG and Triumph Day at Stoneleigh in March and immediately after that at the Practical Classics show back at the NEC. Both these events are scheduled for 2016.

Sincerely

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Attached as mentioned!

Jerry Birkbeck

For the front using MGA front suspension parts, including the drum brakes with twin leading shoes would be the 'easiest' way, but not very cheap.

On the Austin Healey the wire wheel hub is bolted to the brake drum, so those hubs could be used when professionally re-drilled for the 5 x 112 PCD (= bolt pattern) that the Y and YT use?
for a picture of the A-H hub:
https://classicmotorsports.com/media/img/articles/Wire-Wheel-Healey-hub.jpg
Willem van der Veer

Hi Jerry,
My brother, Bill, fitted wires to his YT. He used MGA kingpins/drum-brakes/hubs on the front and 5 bolt adaptors on the back The brakes are now really good! He used TF/MGA 15" wheels to bring the rim back inside the guards. They look perfect on the front as the track looks standard. On the back it results in the track being an inch or two wider but there is no way to reduce that without fitting another rear axle.

The spare has to be a centre-laced wheel if it is to fit in the original spot as an MGA wheel will not fit. If used, it would look strange poking out beyond the guard and could rub the guard in certain situations.

If I find a photo I will post it.

Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

It might be worth mentioning that the TF and MGA wire wheels are not the same, despite both being 15" and outer rim laced. The TF wheels are 4J wide, whereas the MGA are 4.5J wide. In addition, the MGA wire wheels have 60 spokes, but the TF wire wheels have only 48, although later replacements were available with 60 spokes.
R A WILSON

Thanks Bob,

I am aware of the MGA conversion. However, I wonder if fitting adaptors alone is a more straightforward solution?

I fitted a conversion kit using adaptors to my MGA to enable me to fit wires which has worked really well.

Another point which I am a little unsure of is if fitting smaller wheels (as indeed would be the case with a TD/TF or MGA) should I then fit radials or cross plies and what effect would either have on the handling of the Y?

Finally I will be interested to see how the YT that I referred to in my initial post and uses 17" wheels and adaptors works.

Thanks for all your help and guidance.

Sincerely

Jerry

Jerry Birkbeck

Hi again,

The standard wire wheel for the TF and the MGA were both 4" 48 spoke. Early Triumph TRs and Healeys were the same. Somewhere during TF/MGA they changed a bit with a more "curvy" wheel centre. I think 4.5" wheels with 60 spokes were available as a special part and might have been available on new MGA Mk2s. I have bought new 4.5" 60 spokers for my wife's MGA. With the grip of modern tyres, 60 spokers are probably safer, especially if the car is likely to be driven hard. However, if the 48 spokers are in good condition they should be fine on a YT ... but do check the spokes regularly!

Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

Hi,

During the restoration of our MGY3222 we fitted a wire wheel conversion from MWS. The full story is posted under "Interesting Ys"

The wheels are 15x5 60 spokes fitted with 175x65x15 P3000 Radials. The brake drums are cast iron TC finned drums. There is just enough metal to redrill to 5 holes for the Y hub. The wheel studs were replaced with longer Mini Cooper types, these drive straight in the Y hub so the wire wheel hub can be mounted with the required spacers.

Have a look at the photos, on the road the brakes perform very well.

Regards,

Brad & Vicki Wilson

B Wilson

Thanks Brad

That looks like a very worthwhile solution which I will follow up together with your article.

Sincerely
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Hi,

Just a further note: the rears do not need the studs changed, only a 3mm spacer. MWS will drill a 6" flange hub to the 5 stud Y PCD.

Regards,

Brad & Vicki

Attached is a photo of the front with 2x 8mm spacers per side.

B Wilson

Hi Brad

Your updates are much appreciated,
A quick thought. You fitted finned TC druns.
I would imagine than these are slightly slimmer than Y drums. In your experience would it be possible to use existing 5 stud Y drums - or I am I barking up the wrong tree?

Presuably I could fit the longer Mini Cooper
studs?

I have been away so will now read your posting about the car!

Thanks
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Hi,

The TC drums are after market cast iron and a vast improvement in braking over the original pressed steel without having to change to a twin cylinder TD setup.

These drums fitted over the Y shoes without any trouble. If you are using the original drums there should be no trouble fitting the MWS hubs, however you my need to trim the Copper studs a little. This shown on the MWS fitting guide.

Regards,

Brad & Vicki.
B Wilson

Hi Brad

You have very been very helpful on this thread. I have visted the MWS site and it is likely that the adaptors for a w/w conversion to a Ford Granada may possibly fit the five stud fitting on the YA and YT. Anyhow I will contact them with details of the spacing as they would be able to drill out four blank adaptors exactly to my needs.

It would appear that the 15" wires that fit the MGA would be okay.

You mentioned about using the studs and nuts from a Mini Cooper - but what size 33mm/60mm/90mm? Would you need a spacer to cover the securing nuts- I didn't when I fitted a set of wires to my MGA again using a bolt on adaptor.

I have been looking at tyres and am yet undecided whether to go for radials or cross plies. Which ever I use will have far better longevity compared with the Excelsiors that are presently fitted to the YT!

I also wish to ensure that the wheels remain within the line of the wing, though obviously the spinners will still be exposed.

Thanks for your advice

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Hi Jerry,
Just a few little snippets ..... Y drums are identical to TC except for the holes. Y and TC drums are steel which is great if you drop them on concrete from 10 metres because they won't crack, BUT steel does not have the good coefficient of friction which cast iron has. Steel drums possibly work ok with the old style woven linings (e.g. Ferrodo MZ 41 or MR 41) but cast iron with a good modern lining is probably a superior combination. The twin leading shoe 10 inch MGA drums result in GREAT brakes .... however, if you stick to standard brakes with cast iron drums, you could do one other thing to help reduce brake pedal pressure. The master cylinder could be sleeved to a smaller size to improve the "mechanical advantage". I have been intending to do this with my TC for some time. It is worth while considering if the Master cylinder needs resleeving.

Remember that there are various lining materials available. Some are better than others. It is important to talk to the brake specialist about lining selection. Pedal pressure, "fade" resistance and price are three big issues. Lining wear rate and drum wear are other issues but probably not important for us.
Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

Hi,

I found that the hub flange from MWS needed 2x8mm spacers to clear the Y hub. These are placed between the Y hub ad the MWS spined flange. I specified the wheel offset to maintain clearance with the steering rod end and had them supply the wheels as well. This way the track remained as close as possible the original specification.

The Cooper studs I used were 60mm.

I also added a VH44 brake booster and this proved very effective.

The tyres using 15 inch rims were the same Pirelli P3000 radials as used on modern Mini Coopers, readily available and cheap.

The difference between radials and cross-plys is a personal choice, however for safety and performance I would choose radials.

Regards,

Brad & Vicki.
B Wilson

Thanks for the advice Brad. You are spot on about the price and availability of Pirelli 3000's. In the UK they are nearly half the price of the budget Excelsior's currently fitted to the YT.

A few points from your post:
1 Did you fit inner tubes as I note that this is recommended by MWS
2. Is that 2 8mm spacers on each front hub or just one 8mm spacer either side
3. No spacers on the rears I assume?
4. Tyre pressures on YTs are noted as psi (Front) and 25 psi (rear). What pressures are you using on your 3000's?

Look forward to hearing from you.
All the best
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Thanks also Bob for your advice which I will take on board if I choose to fit wires.
I have been asked by some why fit wires?
It's very much a personal choice and any conversion that allows the originals to be fitted is undoubtedly significant.

The contributions by several have certainly made me look at the whole issue in a broader context. It is fascinating to note that many of the more thought provoking changes have come from Australia! (Rather like the Rugby World Cup - but that's another story!). Certainly the use of radials and in particular the suggested use of Pirelli 3000s and their impacts upon the whole driving experience. The Excelsior 525 x 16's currently on the YT are not of the best quality though of course they are budget buys and you get what you pay for!

So your views are very much appreciated!

Sincerely
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Hi Jerry,

In answer to your questions:

- Yes, I did fit inner tubes as suggested by MWS, with a rim with so many spoke holes, it seemed like a good idea!

- You need a total of 16mm per side to clear the shoulder on the original stub axle shaft on the front. On the rear you need 3mm to clear the bump on the end of the half shaft. The centre of the 3mm spacer needs to be relived just a little: 1mm. These spacers are the alloy ones you see at parts stores and on ebay for modern cars and are usually multi fit for different stud numbers and PCD. 8mm was the thickest available at the time, hence 2x8mm per side.

- I use 25lb in the tyres, our Y is very light, so 20lb would be OK, however I prefer higher pressures. Our Y seems to ride well and the rear shock conversion helps. The original rear springs may need a leaf removed, so far it appears not to be worth the effort.

A further few notes:

- I used matching UNF Mini wheel nuts on the front. The new holes in the MWS hub were countersunk to match the inner shoulder of the wheel nut.

- and hi-tensile ny-locs on the original studs on the back, the original Y nuts are too thick and after 65 years a bit slack in the threads. The holes in the MWS hub need not be countersunk.

Regards,

Brad & Vicki
B Wilson

Hi Brad

Many thanks for your invaluable comments. I have located supplies of spacers through ebay without any problems.

I then had another look at your article. The front and rear wings are independent of the body and I wondered to what extent the width of the front and rear wheel base dimensions would be altered.
Could you please possibly provide me with the overall dimensions of the set
that you have following the restoration for both front and rear, measured from the outer tyre wall edges. From this I can confirm whether or not the wheels sit inside or outside the line of both wings.

Many thanks
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Hi Jerry,

You are correct, the wheel conversation was done and then the body was constructed to suit.

However, the overall dimensions are as follows:

- Tyre centre to tyre centre: 1255mm (front)
- Tyre centre to outer edge of tyre: 80mm
- Wheel offset 76mm
- Rims 150mm

All wheels have the same offset.

All the above can be manipulated by changes in the specification of offset and rim width.

Regards,

Brad & Vicki.

B Wilson

Hi Jerry,
In my experience with fitting wider rims and radials to my YT & YA, there is a very limited range of rim sizes and offsets that will fit without fouling the front or rear wings.

To avoid having different rim offsets front and rear, the maximum rim width is around 4 1/2inches with a negative offset of 1 1/4 inch. Tyre size is 175/75 or 80 R16. A larger tyre than this will foul the wings or inner rear wheel arches on 4 1/2 inch rims.

I wish you luck in trying to get a bolt-on hub and wire wheel combination and still retain the standard wings. Almost everyone who has fitted wires went down the MGA conversion route, which is a lot more work & expense than a bolt-on setup.

Cheers

Tony Slattery
A L SLATTERY

Thanks Tony

I need to see an example in the raw to observe, discuss and see exactly what is involved and how such a conversion could actually be achieved.

I am aware how the bolt on conversion on the MGA fits and works. However, on the YT as you have noted the difficulty is how it would affect the wheel rubbing against the front wing. The TD and TF use a narrower wheel than than the MGA a 4J rather than 4.5J on the A.

Although the TD/F both have a different braking set up from the YA and YT. I am at present unsure as to the depth of the drums between the YT and TD if they are the same then I would have thought that the bolt on arrangement ought to work. I know that Moss sell a TD/TF w/w conversion but I don't know to what extent this increases the proximity of a converted wheel to the wing.

MWS sell the conversion spline which enables it to fit over the YT drum. This adaptation results in an increase in width if 31mm each side. I need to check this against the YT. Brad mentioned that an additional 16mm spacer would be required on the either side of the front but only 3mm on the rear. This world give an increase of 46.5mm on each side. If that is the case then this world amount to 47.5mm each side amounting to just under 100mm overall or nearly 4"!

What I will do is take off the adapter on the A and then fit it onto the YT Perhaps using just 3 bolts and then fit my spare from the A and see what problems arise.

Ill report back.
Many thanks for your thoughts!

Sincerely
H
Jerry Birkbeck

Hi Jerry,

I have attached a photo of the MGA/TF wheels on the front of my niece's YT. I will attach a rear photo in the next post. This is the MGA front hub and brakes conversion. To me the offset looks perfect on the front. However I have not driven it over deep bumps on full lock! I reckon wires look GREAT on a Y. Sorry it is a restricted shed shot.

Note the rims are 4 inch which I am sure was standard on MGAs. My wife's MGA has 4" 48 spokers. Ditlev Clausager in his MGA book says normal wire wheels for MGA were 4" 48 spokers. Clausager says 4.5" 60 spoke wheels were only available as special equipment in either steel or aluminium rim. The M.G. Car Company's own MGA Special Tuning booklet lists amongst its SPECIAL parts "Wire Wheels 60 spoke 4.5" 15" diameter" as part number AHH8001. It looks to me like 4'5" 60 spoke were special equipment but I guess it's possible some might have been fitted at the factory ..... more likely very late in production.

Cheers Bob Schapel

R L Schapel

Hi again,

Here is the photo of the rear. It looks good but is perhaps on the limit of being too wide in the track. The backs were fitted with adaptor hubs bolted on to the original five studs. The studs and nuts had to be cut back a bit because initially they touched the wheel centre and that prevented the cone section of the wheel centre from locating home on the cone section of the splined hub adaptor. That demonstrates how it is not possible to bring the rear rim in further without the use of wheels with more offset spoking, or using another rear axle altogether.

If another rear axle were to be selected I would suggest investigating the width of Morris Major (maybe too wide) or MG Midget (similar but narrower). They are open to lots of suitable diff ratios (5.3, 5.1, 4.8, 4.5, 4.2 etc). Midget might already have splines (but beware Midget splined wheel centres are shorter than MGA/ TF). Adaptors (with spacers?) on a bolt-on Midget might bring the track out to suit. We had all these thoughts when fitting the wires.

Remember a spare MGA/TF wheel will not slide in to the spare "slot".

Bob Schapel

R L Schapel

Thanks Bob
Very helpful comments and you are correct (from my research) that the original wheels fitted were indeed 4" wide and fitted with a 5.50 x 15" tyre. These can still be acquired in the UK through Longstone Tyres.

As I mentioned in an earlier post my MGA is fitted with wires using an MWS adaptor but is fitted with 560 x 15 radials, straight onto the existing 4 stud drum.

When my YT returns from the trimmers I will then marry up the adaptor to the existing drum drifting out the studs to accept perhaps 3 of the studs through the adaptor. NOT to try the arrangement and assess to what extent the front and rear wheels from the A might result in any fouling of the wheel arches.

Very crude but I may be to judge whether The result is okay not only aesthetically but also the problems that may arise. In no way does this provide a definite answer and also an understanding of how and if it will fit over a Y type drum and any problems that may arise when applying the brakes. What I wish to do is to retain the existing Y Type drums.
As soon as the YT Is home I will do this but that won't be until the New Year.
I have yet to see any conversion using the existing drums. Any comments on this aspect gratefully received!

To all you who have provided some really helpful advice many thanks. Moreover a very Happy Christmas and New Year to ALl Y owners.

sincerely
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Hi Jerry,

Something I have not tried or measured but is worth investigating is fitting TC front hubs and drums. The drums are the same steel 9" as the Y-Type (just drilled differently). The only problem I can imagine is to get bearings which fit the TC hub but also fit the Y-Type stub axle. I have both types of stubs in my shed and will try to measure and compare them when I get a chance and report back via another post.

Cheers,
Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

Hi Jerry,

Sorry the TC front hub idea won't work. I have done some measuring and, although Y stubs are longer, the inner Y bearing is set about 40mm closer to the backing plate and the outer Y bearing is set about 20mm closer to the backing plate than TC. (The Y bearings are about 20mm further apart than TC.) The stub axle diameters are the same and, although I didn't dismantle to check, it looks like the same bearings might be used in Y and TC. The TC backing plate is offset towards the centre of the car but the Y is offset the other way because of the position of the Y king pin knuckles.

Cheers,
Bob Schapel
R L Schapel

Thanks for the feedback Bob.

My query still is whether anyone has used an adaptor bolted on to to an existing drum and therefore using the five studs and then fitted wires directly onto the adaptor with a spinner etc?

Everyone has suggested alternatives such as using an MGA aet up, or the alfin style drums as fitted to T Types.

Either I am being very obtuse but is there an engineering reason why I cannot use the existing five stud drums and then with a suitable adaptor from MWS fit w/w on to the spline and secured with a spinner. Excactly as I have done with the MGA? (Though of course that is a 4 stud fitting)

I am more than aware that a fundamental issue is the potential fouling of a wider tyre width and my experiment to use my MGA adaptors on the existing drum with hopefully at least two or three of the existing studs being able to secure the adaptor (the others would be drifted out temporarily) and then attach the wheel may help clarify matters. The problem with this is that the tyres on the MGA are 560 width. Also MWS mention that their adaptors will increase track width by 1.25" each side so this may also be an issue.

If all appears to work on my temporary arrangement would this be the basis forward? Or is there a sound engineering reason why this route should not be pursued?

I am not an engineer so I look forward to hearing your views on this and I will of course talk to MWS in the New Year,

Once again thanks for all your time and invaluable help.

Sincerely

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Hi Jerry,

Fitting the MWS system on my car resulted in a track of 1255mm on the front, that is 52mm wider than standard. This is with 150mm wide rims, if you use narrower rims the track would be closer to the original value as this would allow more offset to the wheel.

If you used the MWS hubs then it would be best to determine the offset and rim width after fitting the hubs and have MWS make a set of wheels for you to suit.

There are several questions to be addressed:

- what rim dia do you want, or will fit?
- what rim width do you want or will fit?
- what tyres do you want to use?
- do you want the wheels to have the same offset?

There are many dimensions to juggle to find a solution, trying to use an existing wheel from another car may make the problem that much harder. However, if you were happy with the dia. and width of the MGA wheels you could fit the MWS hub, then fit the MGA wheel and see how much you could increase the offset to get as close as possible to the original track. Them have MWS supply new wheels as a set. This of course means making an early commitment to the MWS system and the expense of new wheels.

I wanted new wheels when I saw the general condition of the second hand ones available, these all needed truing, sand blasting, some new spokes and still you ended up with worn splines. Better to buy new wheels.

Regards,

Brad & Vicki
B Wilson

Thanks Brad

I entirely agree with your comments. Certainly it was never my intention to buy second hand adaptors and/or wheels for the very reasons you have suggested.

As I mentioned I just wanted to try the adaptors and wheels from the MGA to get a feel for the appearance of the car with wires fitted.

Following this I intend to discuss arrangements with MWS. Having followed up your advice and those of others who have kindly contributed I have undertaken a broad costing with MWS providing all the hardware and if needs be the tyres (though I can posssibly get a competitive rate from Longstone Tyres for the 'narrower' tyre size (near to the original for an MGA). Possibly MWS will able to get a suitable set of tyres at a competitive price and fit and balance them prior to delivery of the whole package.

Anyhow it is certainly not a cheap exercise but it may be that I can get better road holding and an improved ride through fitting a slightly wider tyre and possibly a radial onto new wheels rather than the existing which are at least 65 years old (though some of the wheels may have been replaced in the past).

/all good stuff! I will be in touch in the New Year with an update on the saga!

Happy Christmas and a Healthy New Year!

Sincerely
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Jerry,
I would suggest that using the original Y-Type wheel studs to mount an adapter is fraught with risk.

I have a rather large collection of stretched, twisted and broken Y-Type wheel studs - they are really too small for the job with standard wheels.

On both my cars fitted with 4 1/2" rims and radials, all the studs are crack tested annually. In ten years of using the radials, I have found only 5 cracked studs, but that's 5 that would have failed in service if I had not replaced them.

If you go ahead with bolt-on adaptors, I would fit larger wheel studs, or better quality than the original Y-Type.

Below is a photo of our YT with 175/75R16 radials, on 4 1/2" rims.

Cheers

Tony

A L SLATTERY

Thanks Tony

I too had my doubts and the suggestion from Brad to use mini cooper 60mm studs seems eminently sensible. Certainly when I acquired wires for the MGA a set of new studs with nuts and washers was provided.

Nice looking YT you have there.

Happy Christmas and New Year.

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

My Niece just sent me some photos of her YT with wires. The photo was taken at Collingrove hillclimb. I will attach a second pic to the next post.

Bob Schapel

R L Schapel

The second photo from Collingrove Hillclimb. One more to follow.

Bob Schapel

R L Schapel

The third (and last) photo from Collingrove.

Bob Schapel

R L Schapel

Thanks Bob

They really do add some style to the YT!

Will keep you informed of my progress in the New Year. Your thoughtful comments together with those from both Tony and Brad have been especially useful.

However, I can do nowt until the New Year as my trimmer, who is having to undertake remedial work on the hood they fitted last month, is closed for the Christmas/New Year break.

Seasonal Greetings from the UK

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Dear All

I have been in correspondence with MWS and completed the basic technical information. They have approached their supplier as (a) they didn't know about a YT I duly sent them an update. The supplier wants to manufacturer 4 new fittings for a splined adaptor and to fit.the five.stud bolts. Fine but wants anything between £240 and £290 EACH plus VAT!

I have written back a few notes today with photos of the hub bearing carrier and the brake drum to show how this fits within an MGA wheel. Ti my limited knowledge I find it hard to believe they have the right end of the stick. What I asked for was an appropriate hub adaptor although they have nothing for a YT or YA for that matter they do stock undrilled adaptors which then be professional drilled to accept the five studs. These would be new stainless steel threaded bolts of suitable length to pass through the hub carrier and drum to which the hub adaptor would be secured. This is exactly what I have in the MGA so I don't understand why this should be a problem or why such an expensive option is being suggested. I would fit 4" x 15" wires either 48 or 60 spoke with Vredstein 550 x 15 tyres.
I am obviously missing a trick somewhere but does what I have outlined seem technically feasible bearing in mind this is exactly the sane arrangement on my MGA

Any help or advice welcomed

Sincerely
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Hi Jerry,

The local Melbourne agent for MWS charged Aus$125 in total for drilling 5 hubs, part no: XW452S. in 2007.

I am sure you could find a local machinist at a much cheaper price than MWS are quoting to you.

Regards,

Brad
B Wilson

Hi again,

Sorry, misread the old invoice, the part number for the hub is RSK423.

Regards,

Brad
B Wilson

Thanks Brad
I have emailed MWS with my requirements and if they are prepared to drill out the five hubs using the information that I have sent them. If not then I'll have everything shipped to home and locate a suitable engineering shop.

Your help is much appreciated.

Sincerely
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Dear All

Another query on this ongoing saga and thank you for the time and contribution that several have put.

Following a request from MWS to complete a Special Order Form I duly did.
They came back to me with a note mentioning that the internal clearance on this splined hub RSK 423 is not sufficient to clear points C and E on the Order Form (attached I hope)

I have rechecked this and I have made an error on measurement see which I had written down as 85mm when in fact it should be 65mm.

Any thoughts and comments welcome. I would add that these dimensions were taken off a spare bearing carrier and drum that I had around as the YT is STILL at the Trimmers!

Thanks for your time. I'll need to send it in a different format!

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Hi Brad et al

I need your advice and guidance please chaps! I am well aware that that the hub and bearing carrier that fits through the brake drum will have to be wide enough to fit the hub adaptors. Indeed I tried to mate up the part to the adaptors that I have fitted on the MGA and they are too narrow to take the Y type hub/bearing carrier.

I was asked by MWS to complete a Special Order Form and the following information was requested:

A PCD No. of Studs/Holes
There are 5 holes for the stud to pass through

B The Distance between the studs/holes 65mm

C The Diamete ro Clear 65mm
(This is the overall diameter where the stub axle passes through the drum)

D Th e Diameter or Nut to clear 60mm

E The length 25mm
(The distance which the stub protrudes through the brake drum)

F The Length 25mm
(Which is the same length a E since the housing has flush and not stepped
sides)

G The stud size and thread 10mm

H Stud length 35mm * (What it should be to secure the new adaptor?)

These relate to a diagram of the brake drum which I will have to ask to you imagine. Though I will attempt to scan the drawing and attach that as a picture.

What I am findimg difficult to fathom is where you Brad have used a TC brake drum which is fine but is the diameter of the stub axle excatly the same as the Y (which it must be) and are you using a different hub/bearing carrier? This is the dilemma if you are then undoubtedly the splined hub adaptor RSK 423 fits However, if you are using the Y Type Hub Carrier and RSK 423 still fits then I must have made a fundametal error in my calculations.

I can get a new set of adaptors specially manufactured at a cost. If however you can confirm that you still have the Y Type bearing carrier, which since it is a 5 bolt fitting you surely must have to pass through the Y brake drum than I must go back to MWS and outline my needs (Probably through visiting the company in Slough).

Any help will be mill be most gratfully received.

Thanking you all in anticipation.

Sincerely

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Hi Jerry,

The TC drums are redrilled to 5 holes from 6, there is just enough metal if you use only 1 of the original TC holes. This is using the original YA hubs.

The RSK423 hub goes over the YA stub axle but touches the tapered section of the RSK Hub leaving a 18mm gap between the RSK423 flange and the face of the brake drum. This where the need for the 18mm spacer and the longer Mini Cooper studs comes from.

I suggest you borrow an undrilled RSK423 and try it over your hub with the drum fitted. and measure the gap between the RSK423 flange and the face of the brake drum. MWS may lend you one with a deposit or you may need to buy one and return it if it doesn't work for you.

After this you can order the standard RSK423 (R & LH) and just specify the PCD and hole size x 5.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Brad

B Wilson

Hi again,

Just a postscript: You will need to knock the studs in so there is less than 20mm clear of the face of the brake drum.

Regards,

Brad
B Wilson


Thanks for the information Brad.

I am rather concerned that even allowing for the arrangement that you have in place the 18mm spacers could cause problems for the bearing in the future. Also when you add the extra width to that of the 31mm additional length mentioned by MWS when their adaptors are fitted then this gives an extra width of 49 mm per side so am overall addition of 98 mm overall.

Whilst I can see from your modified YA this is not a problem as you have altered the front wing profile then it must surely take the front wheels beyond the edge of the Y and YT front wings?

I must thank you for all your help and advice as you along with others have been a mine of excellent information. Not entirely where I go from here as MWS expressed the same concerns over the spacers. I could have acquired an undrilled hub adaptor from them and then followed your suggestions. However, the reply from MWS not recommending spacers is of concern especially since the Y hub/bearing carrier is probably at least 65 years old!


I'll keep you informed of my next steps,

Sincerely

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Dear All

You chaps have been most helpful in considering ways that I could fit wire wheels to the YT whilst retaining the existing brake drums etc.

However, after correspondence with both MWS and Orson (hub suppliers in the UK) it is evident that I have a problem with fitting wires to rear axle of the YT.

I was asked by MWS to measure clearance distances between the face of the brake drums (f and r) and the rim of the existing wheels. It was 77mm for both. According to both hub suppliers there is likely to be a 25mm overhang on the rear axle. I have just taken the spare w/w off the MGA (though fitted with a 165mm width tyre) and compared the distance with w/w and the existing YT wheel.

I have though used as a measurement the 155 x 15 tyres that I would fit to the 15" x 4" wheels that I would like to fit to the YT.
The overall distance from the face of the drum to the rim of the proposed wheel is 22mm wider (99mm).

Two points (1) Does this seem correct? And (2) how can I overcome this whilst still using the existing brakes and drums as all that I can see is that he rear wheel arch would have to be flared to counteract this.
This is something that I would not wish to do so any views would be welcomed.

Of course the next port of call would be to fit MGA drums and all that would involve. If I choose to do this could I still retain the existing Y Drums on the front?

Apologies for a few naive questions but best to either decide that the preferred option (retain existing drums) cannot be readily achieved/could be fairing the rear wing. Or... is it down the route of fitting A drums?.

Your thoughts and observations are welcomed.

Sincerely

Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

Jerry,

Surely wire wheels are more work keeping them clean, certainly not proving easy for you to convert judging by the number of threads. I say love the YT for what it is, superb car you can be proud of just the way it is. Go and take it for spin and enjoy it.

On another note, nice photo of Robert Taylors YB in this months newsletter www.winchestermgoc.co.uk Cobweb spin this weekend so may be some Y's there too, location: Hilliers, Romsey.

Richard
R E Knight

Yes Richard they are more work to keep clean but with a power washer life is easier. I do like wires and they added a huge amount of character to a car especially a Y and particularly the YT.

However it seems that using the existing drums etc on the YT is fraught with problems and the need to fit wheel arches to accommodate the extra width the only way forward which is something that I am not prepared to do.
So it's back to considering other options.

Nothing will happen this season but maybe over the winter of this year.

Catch up with you on the Spring Run

All the best
Jerry
Jerry Birkbeck

This thread was discussed between 18/11/2015 and 10/03/2016

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