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MG MG Y Type - Help! Starting Problem! UHK111

UHK111 came back from Peter Edney yesterday evening on a trailer. Took her for a brief spin and she was at times sluggish as if running out of fuel or running cold without the choke. Thought I'd give her a full run this evening to see if things would be better but when I tried to start her the starter would turn over fine but the engine would not fire at all either with or without the choke. She's not damp, battery is charged and she has fuel. Peter Edney is shut and I have a race to get to on Monday. Any ideas as to possible causes? Seeing she ran (albeit lumpily) yesterday I imagine its something simple. Thanks in anticipation!

ps she is running on twin 1.25 inch carbs fed by twin SU fuel pumps. I suspect something fuel related!
Marc Hanson

Hi Marc

This will sound incredibly silly but it is true - put a new distributor arm on. If you dont have one to hand, go to Halfords or any car parts store and get one for a BMC/BL Mini as they fit a treat.

Replace the one you have.

If that works, what you have is a tiny hair crack in the arm and the spark charge is going straight to the bottom of the sump with your old arm. I carry a spare in the glove box for just such an eventuality. Had the same thing happen to me many years ago after I drove to a friends one evening. Took me a week to locate the problem and then only after an old guy suggested it. I thought he was off his chump, but he was right on the money.

Paul
Paul Barrow

Thanks Paul. Will give it a go. Its a brand new distributor (arm, cap , points etc) so suspect might be something more sinister. Can I try starting it with the hadle or am I likely to damage it?
Marc Hanson

Hi Mark

I am surprised that Peter Edney did not road test the car before returning it to you.

A few simple thoughts:

- Take out the plugs (are they the originals or have
they been changed). If they haven't then buy a new
set from Halfords. I think I'm correct in saying
that most YB's should have long reach plugs (14mm).
You can purchase a set of NGK BP6ES for about £9.50

- Check the setting of the points which ought to be
between 0.020in to 0.022in (0.51mm - 0.56mm). I
gather that you have had a new set fitted - just
confirm that both faces are not pitted and clean
and that there is no grease or muck present. You
can confirm if they are working by switching the
ignition on, taking off the distributor cap and
checking if there is a spark at the points with a
screwdriver. If there isn't then you need to check
that the wire between the distributor and the coil
is firmly attached. I had a problem in Spain in my
XPAG engined TA, which stopped and spluttered and
would not start. The problem was that the internal
wire within the low tension lead had broken!

- If it's a rotor arm that you need and as Paul
mentioned apparently a mini arm will fit.

- The other part you might need to look at is the
condensor. However, I gather that Edney has
replaced these.


I doubt that it's the fuel but you can test this by
switching on the ignition, listen to the petrol
pump ticking and then put a towel beneath the carbs
and take the lead off each carb to see if the
petrol is flowing through. Switch off the ignition
and remove the petrol covered towel! If all is well
then it's not the fuel.

It very much sounds like an ignition matter and is
possibly a fault in the low tension wires, dirty or
pitted contacts, contact breaker out of adjustment
or as Paul has suggested the rotor arm.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely


Jerry

J P BIRKBECK

Thanks Jerry, prolem now sorted - at least for the time being. The only old bit on the engine is the starter motor and it was not engaging. Have tinkered and hopefully it will noow be ok for Monday!
Marc Hanson

Taking the starter out and putting it back in again is a right royal PITA*.

The symptoms you described though were post starting - did you get them sorted? It is definitely ignition related and the last thing you want is to be hareing round a track with cars all over the place and it cut out on you.

If you are following in the footsteps of your illustious Previous Owner you will be driving too and (hopefully) from your race meeting with the minor concession being to turn the headlamps back. This will have the added advantage of course that besides having a blisteringly quick car (of course) you can blind the opposition by turning on your headlamps on to beam :-)

Have fun and be safe

Paul

Paul Barrow

Do you have a generator with tachodrive as per the TC/TD? If so, check if the distributor isn't shorting against the thacho drive.
Willem vd Veer

Marc

I was doing some research today and found that your car was originally Maroon in colour if ever you plan to put it back to the original colour.

Just an FYI. Hope the racing went well.

Paul
Paul Barrow

Paul, you are right, the problem did turn out to be ignition related! As per Dick Jacobs I decided to drive the 50 miles from my home to Goodwood in the car. Got about halfway there when the car stuttered and died on me. The RAC came out and had a look. Their view was it was the condenser. I checked with Peter Edney and it turned out the one other bit they didnt change was the ignition system (apart from the coil)! Anyway, the RAC did not have a spare condenser and all the shops were shut (it was a Sunday). However they then renewed the connections to the coil (which was new) and the car started to work again! In fact it got me down to Sussex fine.

Next morning it got me to the race track and out for my first practice run. On the first lap again the car statred to stutter and run unevenly. Limped back to the pits and had a look. There was a bit of water in the engine bay, coming from (I thought) the radiator overflow. A nice chap had a spare consenser and we changed mine and all seemed fine. I took her out for her first timed run and she ran fine. I wasn't canning her and it took a lot of getting used to driving something at Goodwood quite so slow. No need to have memorised all those braking points! Anyway got her up to about 75 on the straight so not too bad for a first outing.

At lunchtime I decided to take her into Chichester (a few miles away) where a friendly garage had offered to quicky take my wheels off to allow me to adjust the brake shoes which were still bedding in. It was only a ten minute drive away but after 5 minutes she again began running unevenly, then on three cylinders. As there was nowhere safe to stop I soldiered on to the garage. When I got there she dumped a huge puddle of coolant on the floor as a cloud of steam came out from under the bonnet.

Our initial fear was that the head gasket had blown but after much cursing we eventually found the root of the problem. The new top hose fitted by Peter Edney was too short and when the engine vibrated at speed it had become loose dumping the coolant into the engne bay and on the road. I suspect this might have been the cause of the stuttering and rough running as after we had refixed it and dried the electrics she seemed to run fine. However I was not taking any more chances in a) getting home and b) ruining the engine so she went back to Surrey on the back of a transporter! Peter Edney will collect her again next week and hopefully sort her out..

Still, she was very well recieved at Goodwood and generated much interest. Thanks also to the couple (whose name I'm afraid I did not get) from the Y Register who came to offer support.

Her next outing, hopefully in full working order, will be at Crystal Palace for the 30th / 31st May Sprint.
Marc Hanson

Hi Marc

Bearing in mind that Peter Edney was going to bring your YB up to the spec when it was last raced it seems that he sadly didn't quite deliver the goods. I'm amazed that he didn't do anything to the ignition system. In fairness to PE he did a very good job rebuilding the XPAG (in fact it's an XPAW)in my TA.

Mine went in for resolving a rear end oil leak and having the head converted to unleaded. Of course the engine, which had been rebuilt some 20k miles before, was knackered. So it was completely rebuilt and now after about 4k miles it's now bedded in very well and runs really well. My criticism of him is that he was slow and gave me completion dates that were just not met. You do need to contact him regularly and ensure that the car has been given a good test run. One would have thought that had that been done then all the teething problems that you sadly experienced would have been overcome.

I am sure that come your next event all will be well.
Are you coming on the Spring Run on Sunday 23rd May?
It would be great to see you and the car.

Have fun with the Y - they are great fun as I am finding with the YT. I haven't converted the air filters yet but will be looking into that over the next few weeks.

Sincerely

Jerry
J P BIRKBECK

Marc

Great report - thank you. I enjoyed reading it. Yes those top hoses are often too short because the are a devil to get on. Same with the short small hose on the elbow that comes out from the water pump - all 3 of them are beggars to get right so check them too for security.

Probably what was happening as you have guessed is water was "steaming" at pressure and finding its way to the plugs and distributor. I had a similar problem with an MGB on a rally one time. It was a hair line gap under the head gasket steaming out over the distributor. My reaction and cure - for the rest of the week I ran the car with a plastic shopping bag over the distributor and every night after she had cooled down, topped up the small amount of water she had lost. In fact I ran the car like that for almost 18 months through a couple more rallies before I could be bothered to fix it! Talk about a low tech solution!

Cheers!

Paul
Paul Barrow

I came to edit my comment and somehow lost it in the ether. I had these thoughts to add:

I have found that it's useful getting a couple of sets of points, rotor arms and condensors. Although they are more expensive than from some suppliers Barry Walker does have some originals(still wrapped in their Lucas brown paper)but marketed for the Spanish market, according to the info on the box that I acquired recently. They are much better than some of the far eastern imports that are on the market. Mind you a couple of cheap rotor arms from Halfords would not go amiss. I'm sure that you have thought of this but it is useful spending about £20 on these parts and having them in your tool box in the car. You may well also have a spare petrol pump - again it's a must have spare to carry round with you a coil too would complete your ignition and other travelling spares!

I may well be teaching you to suck eggs and if I am then I must apologise. It's just when you have an older car it can be very challenging - but they are really simple.


Sincerely

Jerry
J P BIRKBECK

Congratulations ,Marc, on getting all the restoration work to your very unique YB.I'm sure all the worldwide Y enthusiasts were just as excited as myself to follow your progress in getting race prepared and the unfortunate anticlimax.

However,you're nearly there with just a few things to get sorted and you then should have a very reliable YB giving many years of pleasure to yourself and to your many admirers.

Good Luck for the next outing .


ED Winters
E Winters

Thanks for all the comments. I expect Peter ran out of time to set her up thouroghly for the event but in the end I did one of the two timed runs so was not too dispirited. In fact you could say the old girl managed to complete her first competitive event in 56 years! She is going back to Peter next week where the electrics will be renewed and her carbs set up properly on a rolling road. She'll also have a very long road test. I am (on the whole) very happy with Peter's work - you should see the engine after its rebuild - you could eat your tea off it (though the unintended steam clean may have helped).

Sadly I can't make the Y weekend - my wife only lets me out with my cars for a certain number of weekends a year and most of those go towards racing. This year I'm splitting my racing between the Y and my MGF. The YB is hopefully going to take part in the Crystal Palace Sprint at the end of May and the Brighton Speed Trials in September. She may also do the Regis Rally in September / October. The MGF will be doing hill climbs at Gurston, Shelsly, and Prescot and sprints at Abingdon and Castle Coombe. As I don't have a trailer I dont fancy those events in the YB - a bit too far away!

As to Silverstone (MG Live), I'm afraid I'm likely to do the sprint in my MGF rather than the YB this year. UHK 111 may, however, make an appearance with the Register if I can find a driver willing to take her up for the event.

As to the advice given and "teaching people to suck eggs" - don't worry. I'm of the generation who has never really had to worry too much about mechanics and as a result I know very little about old cars. Until last weekend I had never heard of a condenser let alone changed one! So all advice gratefully received!

Marc Hanson

This thread was discussed between 02/04/2010 and 15/04/2010

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