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MG MG Y Type - Just how rare??

Just how rare are the 'Y' types, as only five turned up at the Octagon Car Clubs ' WINGS RUN'. In comparrison there were TD's anf TF's as far as the eye could see. Three VA/SA/WA's arrived, in all their magesty, but the 'Y's were poorly represented in numbers. Those that did attend were excellent examples though.

Do other countries have such a shy bunch of 'Y' type owners I wonder.

Neil.
Neil Cairns

Neil

I have had my YT since 1961 and have never seen very many at any one time. When I was living in Virginia (Washington DC area) I participated in "The Original British Car Day" for 4 years. This is one of the larger car shows on the East Coast of the US, with over 500 cars present. I don't remember having more than 2 Y types there at any time, and mine was the only YT.

Here in the San Diego area there are only a YA and my YT in the local shows. Was supposed to be another YT last year but it didn't show.

I don't know the numbers for the saloon types, but I believe that there were only 847 YTs produced in total.

Hope this helps.

Larry
Lawrence Hallanger

Hello! When we drive our 1952 MG YB (original condition-never been restored or repainted) to car shows, it is the only Y type there. The only car show that we drove to that had another Y type was at MG's on the Green at Lake Norman in Davidson, NC (co-hosted by Hank Rippert, Chairman of the New England MG T Register) this past October. Ed Seagrave of South Carolina had his restored YA at that show. I have been told that there were only 1,301 YB's produced in 1952 & 1953 and that there are only a handful in the United States. We drive ours to as many car shows as we possibly can and absolutely love it. We showed the YB yesterday along with our newest car and it was really cute! We got a 2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser Limited Edition last Wednesday. It is silver metallic which is a brighter silver than our YB. We parked them side by side and it almost looked as though the YB had given birth!! We are looking forward to showing them together again! I hope all Y owners have as much fun with their Y as we are having with ours!! Just wish there were a few more in our area to fellowship with!!
Judy Walker

We have more comments about our 47 YA at the Safeway then we get if we drive the 53TD.....One thing to remember is that back in the 60's and 70s' we cut up the YA and YB for parts to keep the TDs and TFs running. I bought a yb at a junk yard in the early 60's for the engine...only paid $75 for the whole car...I could not buy just the engine..."to get the engine you have to take the whole thing" In the Seattle area there are 2 YT's, 1 YA and at the least 2 YBs...


Rob Roberson

The fact is that the Y is thin on the ground and always has been. In the UK and Australia, where most were sold, it was even 50+ years ago a bit of a rarity.There were according to Lawson 6158 YAs, 877 YTs and 1301 YBs. The Y saloons, as far as I can determine and recolect,were not actively sold in Canada and the US,although there may have been a handfull of left hand drive saloons sold originaly in North America.

To put it in perspective there were some 10,000 TCs, 30,000 TDs and 10,000 TFs.The Y was outnumberd and always was. We should be gratefull that the YT contributed much of its machinery of the TD otherwise we wouldn't have any on the road today.

I have had my 1949 YT ( sold here in Vancouver BC in 1950) since 1956 and have had it operational for most of that time. For the first 10 years it was, for me and then my younger brother, the everyday car.The MG dealer in BC (Plimley) sold 5 of them here, 3 in Vancouver and 2 in Victoria. Basil Plimley told me years ago that they never imported any saloons but I have a good recollection from the late 50s of waving, on more than one occaision, at an oncoming Y saloon. I can't now recall whether it had RH or LR drive. It has evaporated, I suspect for good at least here in Vancouver. But you never know, just a month ago a 46/47 Wolseley 8 turned up here in super original condition(LHD).

Of the 5 YTs sold here 4 still exist, 3 in BC and one which has gone to Ontario. This survival rate would seem to indicate that there might be a significant number of YT survivors elsewhwere. As a percentage of 877 could it be close to 50%?

All the YTs sold in BC were LHD . Yet in the US there seem to be a considerable number of RHD examples. I have been told on no particular authority that they were originally sold there. Seems odd as the YT EXU was I think the first MG with LHD and specifically developerd for the North American market.
Why would MG sell RHD models in the US without all the specially developed bells and whistles that came with the EXU. But except for the odd car from Australia the RHD examples can't have been brought back by GIs because hardly any YTs were sold in the UK and the YTs brought in from the continent had LHD and speedos in Ks. I think almost all the saloons in North America are pre owned imports.

Any more theories?











Terry O'Brien

Interesting reading the above comments. I did not know that lots of YT's in the USA were RHD, that really is odd. The YT was 'THE FIRST EVER LHD MG', beating the TD by about 7 months.

In the UK where the 'Y' type is obviously more common than elsewhere, it is sad to say a great number of punters, ( non-enthusiasts who visit car shows,) assume my 'YB' is a "RILEY"........It seems we UK owners need to get out and about more to educate the public. ( Note, for non-UK readers, the Riley motor car was assembled at Abingdon after WW2 until about 1956-ish. A nice, but heavy saloon, in 1.5 litre RMA and 2.5 litre RME models.)

Have any others had punters with odd ideas about their 'Y' type?

Neil.
Neil Cairns

Neil: The one comment that I really love is "MG never made a 4 door" if I have heard that once I've heard it a dozen times...
Rob
Rob Roberson

Neil : I think the YT in LHD form beat the TD by about 2 1/2 years. The first YT, an EXU, appeared in July 1948.There may have been a few LHD saloons slightly before that but there couldnt be any untill the use of the central battery box which was developed for the YT so that it could be made with LHD.

Interesting that many pieces from the YT EXU migrated to the TC EXU in December 1948. E.G. bumpers and overriders, the whole turn signal system, the windtone horns; but the TC EXU remained RHD. Was this because MG didn't change the oil pump on the TC as was done on the Y to accomodate LHD or did the entire configuration of the TC preclude LHD. Terry
Terry O'Brien

Can not count. Should be 1 1/2 years in the previous message.
Terry O'Brien

Andrew Coulson is arranging a Y Type stand at the Ripon Old Cars, Classic Car Gathering on Sunday the 9th of July 2000,for further details e-mail above.
Malcolm Hardy

Y type owners seem to be spread relatively wide and thin, I've been able to help out with parts for folks from Elgin (Northern Scotland) to Devon... so my guess is that a wider range of locations would see more overall outings.

Obviously this would not have a big impact on the number at any one event, but it would helpfly the flag.

For the record I won a 1951 YA, 2 tone green, rally/.show and use it for shopping; a 1949 YT, red, currently under the body surgeons, should be out and about later this summer; BGT (1978) is owned by wife and some parts are still interchangeable...

The 9 July meeting in Ripon will have 500+ multi marque cars, pplus 10 one make stands. Y Types are one of this ten!! Call on 01 765 600 716 for details, or email..

Off to replace the YT dynamo, Andrew
Andrew Coulson

The bit on ' four door MG's' amused me.

I may need correcting, but a list of four door MG's might include the following models,

1924 14/28,
1924 14/40
1928 18/80
1932 Magnette pillarless saloon,
1936 SA,
1936 VA,
1939 WA,
1947 'YA' series,
1952 'YB, series,
1953 'ZA' Magnette,
1956 ZB & ZBV,
1959 Mk3 Magnette,
1961 Mk4 Magnette,
1962 MG 1100,
1967 MG 1300 Mk1,
1968 MG 1300 Mk2, ( though this might have been only available as a two door....)
1983 MG Maestro 'R' series,
1984 MG Maestro 'S'series,
1984 MG Maestro 2.0 EFi, 'O' series,
1984 MG Montego ".0 i,
1985 MG Montego Turbo 2.0,
1989 MG Maesrto Turbo 2.0,
2000 MG Magnette? from the Rover 75?

Please pass this list onto our USA cousins, who may be amazed.

Neil.

Neil Cairns

I just looked up the dates for the 'first LHD MG'. According to factory records the first 'YT' came off the line on 04 Oct. 1948. I assume it was LHD as the model was an export version.

The TD followed a lot closer than I thought, as Mike Allisons book says the TD began production in summer 1949. However, there were pre-production LHD TD's about in late 1948. They obviously had bits of the YT in use.

So there is no dispute over which was the first left-hooker MG, it was the YT. But the TD was not far behind, only a matter of 6-7 months between official production dates.

Neil.
Neil Cairns

We are now into nitpicking, but we should compare apples with apples. David Lawrence in his brilliant book "Let there be 'Y's" states that the first YT (EXU 1922) was completed and photographed on July 23 1948.and he is almost certain that it was this car, modified from a prototype, that received its Guarantee Plate on 4th October 1948.Thus the first LHD MG would seem to have been built in July 1948. By the way if you are a Y type enthusiast David's book is a" must have".

There was an article or interview with, I think, Cecil Cousins printed in the TSO some 10-20 years ago. In it he states, as I recall it, that the decsion to replace the TC was made in the summer of 1949 and that he and his team then made up the prototype using a Y chassis reduced to a 94" wheelbase and adapting the TC body to it, in about a six week time frame.I have never seen any reference as to whether this prototype was LHD or RHD but I would think it highly likely it was RHD. Somewhere I have the article.

Clausager in his book gives the production and export figures for the TD. The first production was in November 1949 and 98 were produced in that year, all of them RHD. In 1950 scads of LHD models were produced. The only conclusion I can draw is that the YT in LHD preceded the TD with LHD by about 18 months.

Terry O'Brien

I'm a bit late into the fray here, but rarity of Ys in the UK surprises me - didn't we see over 30 on the Octagon/MGCC's very well organised Y Spring Run this year? From all over the UK as well. The sight of a long line of Ys outside a stately home in the spring sun was memorable! I know Jerry Birkbeck has been trying to reach 50 cars on the run, and we just haven't made that figure yet, but the steady flow of new restorations is very encouraging - I am sure we'll get there soon.

Tim Griggs
(Y6814)
Tim Griggs

For those of you interested in "Y" types in the United States and Canada you should contact Wayne Mussleman at oldmgman@aol.com.

Wayne is building a mail list for Y owners and sends out a newsletter on occassion. He lives in Belloingham, WA for the gentleman in Bellevue.

We just completed our GoF West in San Diego, California where there was but one YA owned by Tom Cox over in Denver, Colorado. Hope to see more in the future. The gentleman from San Diego should have had his Y at the event. Maybe next year in Napa, California.

If you need more info on the GoF West, contact me.

Floyd Inman
Floyd Inman

Incidentally, the YA driven in San Diego by Tom Cox is a left had drive car.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there were very few of these cars built. Anyone know the number of LHD YA-YBs built????

Floyd Inman
Floyd Inman

Floyd

Unfortunately my YT is not roadable at the present, and will be off the road for a few more months. There is also a YA here in San Diego that makes most of the shows.

FWIW my YT is a left hand drive EXU model.

Maybe we'll see you in Napa next year.

Larry Hallanger
Lawrence Hallanger

John Lawson in the UK has the most up-to-date list of known 'Y' types. He also runs a newsletter, that goes out all over the world.

Amongst his data he has lists of completion dates of 'Y's. It may be possible to count the lhd-rhd models.

According to John there are still existing...

( 1998 figures,)
577 in the England,
327 in Australia,
153 in USA,
46 S.Africa,
43 Scotland,
25 in Wales,
21 Switzerland,
17 in Canada,
16 in Eire,
12 in Holland,
12 in New Zealand,
9 in Northern Ireland,
7 Denmark,
5 Singapore,
4 Belgium,.
4 Germany,
4 Channel Islands,
2 Sri Lanka,
2 Malaysia,
2 Portugal,
2 India,
2 Norway,
2 Uraguay,
and 1 each in Madeira, Japan, Zimbabwe, Cyprus, Hong Kong, Bangladesh, Macau, Namibia, Austria, Finland, France, and Sweeden.

In years there are, 1947 70 cars, 1948 110 cars, 1949 308 cars, 1950 218 cars, 1951 104 cars, 1952 94 cars, and 1953 99 cars.

All figures with kind permission of John Lawson, from his Register Records.

Later.... I have looked through the YA, YB and YT dates above, the records just say 'EX' for export, not if they are lhd or rhd.
In an old issue of his Newsletter, he says there are 13 lhd YA's on the Register, no mention of the other two models.

For the uninitiated, you cannot just ask for the old production records, they were destroyed years ago.

Production figures are, by year...

1947 900 cars, chassis 0251 to 1150,
1948 1058 cars, 1151 to 2208,
1949 2031 cars, 2209 to 4239,
1950 2045 cars, 4240 to 6284,
1951 1001 cars, 6285 to 7285,

then the YB,
1952 679 cars 0251 to 0929,
1953 622 cars 0930 to 1551.

Of these 3,019 were exported, and 4440 sold in the UK.

Neil.
Neil Cairns

Having just got on the net today [at home ] I picked up this conversation late on. From my experience as a Y Type owner in the UK during the 1970's and later in the 1990's [until late '98]the Y Type has become an accepted part of the MG family. Much of this is no doubt due to the work of John Lawson but more especially by Dennis Doubtfire and the MGCC Y Register. This latter individual has done a fantastic amount to raise the profile of the Y and to encourage its use.

I am sure that we are all aware that many Y's went to an unnecessary death to provide an engine or gearbox for T type. However, I am amazed at the number of restored Y's and models for restoration that have appeared over the last couple of years.

Interestingly when I had my Y's several people remembered them as Doctors cars - any comments.

Tim Griggs commented on the Spring Run that the Y Register has run for the last four years. I am well aware that there are well over 100 Y's in regular use and I have hoped that we will get together 50 at one event. Andrew Coulson is right when he refers to geographical spread of the model within the UK. This is a problem - which I think is why we get so few to other events.

I have repeatedly commented in the info packs that I have prepared that if owners use their cars then they really ought to make the most of no road tax and very cheap insurance and get out and use their cars - for goodness sake that is what they were built for.

Next year's Spring Run will most definitely be advertised on the net - so please make an effort and get your car out of the garage and on the road.

Finally, I was staggered to see a YA advertised for £20K. They are smashing cars and good fun but surely never worth that kind of money?

I look forward to arranging next years run, hopefully with route selector Richard Dick even though I am no longer a Y owner - I joined the T Type ranks!

Jerry Birkbeck
Jerry Birkbeck

Just for the record, and perhaps coincidence, my tiny suburb in Sydney has 2 YT's (one undergoing restoration), YA, 4 ZA's, a TD, a couple of A's and countless B's.... and these are the ones you see up at the shops. It must be the weather or maybe even the water!!
John Meyer

This thread was discussed between 12/06/2000 and 22/08/2000

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