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MG MG Y Type - Modern fuel and that non-starting problem...

When you've driven yourself crazy trying to start your trusty XPAG after a few months - you've got a lovely fat spark, perfectly timed, points cleaned and set, there's petrol in the carb, no jet blockage, and everything else you can think of is "on the nose" - what do you do when the engine won't even cough?

Well, as I'm sure many of you have already discovered, what you do is empty the fuel tank, drain out the carb, flush out the fuel line and the pump with new fuel, and refill the tank with new fuel. Then you pull the starter knob (or push the button, of course, if your car is an earlier one than mine...) and the engine starts - immediately. Not after one or two turns, but absolutely immediately. It was as if I had previously forgotten to turn on the ignition (I hadn't).

Result: engine completely back to its usual sweetness, flexibility and quick starting.

On this evidence it's true that modern fuel does seem to lose its combustibility quite rapidly - I'm startled at the effect though, and how stark the difference was. So if you have the same problem, don't struggle - just replace the fuel.

Now I just have to find a way to dispose properly of about six litres of unusable petrol - it's proving more difficult than I thought!
Tim Griggs

Its quite easy Tim

Drop half a gallon a time with an almost full tank of gas into your modern rig and just drive it off.

Half a gallon of that garbage stuff will mix in with 10 or 15 gallons of new and the effect will be so dilute you will hardly notice.

Paul
Paul Barrow

I would do that, Paul, but my modern is a diesel... :-) Even the local recycling centre doesn't know what to do with garbage petrol. Maybe I should just keep it to wash out the air filter, as recommended by the Y-type manual in the days before we cared about volatile organic emissions and so on.
Tim Griggs

From Wikipedia: «Quality gasoline should be stable almost indefinitely if stored properly. Such storage should be in an airtight container, to prevent oxidation or water vapors mixing, and at a stable cool temperature to reduce the chance of the container's leaking. When gasoline is not stored correctly, gums and solids may accumulate, resulting in "stale fuel". The presence of these degradation products in fuel tank, lines, and carburetor or fuel injection components, make it harder to start the engine. Upon resumption of regular vehicle usage, the buildups should eventually be cleaned out by the flow of fresh petrol. A FUEL STABILIZER can be used to extend the life of fuel that is not or cannot be stored properly. Fuel stabilizer is commonly used for small engines, such as lawnmower and tractor engines, to promote quicker and more reliable starting. Users have been advised to keep gasoline containers more than half full and properly capped to reduce air exposure, to avoid storage at high temperatures, to run an engine for ten minutes to circulate the stabilizer through all components prior to storage, and to run the engine at intervals to purge stale fuel from the carburetor.»

For the last 30 years, I've used a fuel stabilizer in cars that I know won't use their entire petrol supply within 3 months. Never had a starting problem.

Fuel for thought.
Gilles Bachand

This thread allows me to ride my hobby-horse again.

The Y was designed to run on a much inferior petrol, about 82 octane rather than 90 plus.

I ran mine for two years or more, before I sold it, with a 10 percent mixture of kerosene which I bought as heating oil.

The car ran better and smoother, and I saved the tax which is not payable on kerosene.

It is legal under certain circumstances.

If anyone wants details or convincing, contact me.

Michael
Michael Nicholson

Hi Tim

"I would do that, Paul, but my modern is a diesel... :-)"

I can see how that might not be the best advice then Tim :-)

However, given the extortionate price of gas over there, I am pretty sure you should be able to give it away to your neighbors. At 1/2 gal per tank full they will not get any appreciable loss of economy or damage to their newer car.

Also, titbit of info for you, it is illegal to store more that 5 gallons of gasoline (or on road diesel) in your residence in the UK even if it is in appropriate containers unless you have a special license from Customs and Excise so to do so get it down to that as soon as you can. I am sure you over estimated the amount you have when you guessed at it earlier in the post didn't you?

Paul
Paul Barrow

Why not burn it of in your Y?

Fuel consist of light particles and heavy particles. The lighter ones evaporate (more) quickly from the fuel, with reduced cold combustibility as a result.

When warm the XPAG will run on almost everything, including Michaels kerosene. So when you dilute the six liters on a full tank, you won't have any problems at all.
Willem vd Veer

Willem is right - you said six litres ... not Gallons - didnt realize that the MG Y could run on Litres of petrol:-).

Six liters, unless the law has changed Tim you will be fine keeping in your garage.

Paul
Paul Barrow

I have heard that you can run a Y eg XPAG engine on 5-10% kerosene (paraffin) in the petrol too..only problem is (I am told so correct me if I am wrong) that the kerosene tends to increase washing away of oil in the bores [more than neat petrol] so causing greater wear.
D MULLEN

I've commented on this topic before, concur with all of the above comments. Read "MG's Past and Present" by Rivers-Fletcher where had similar problems in 1947 with Methanol - Pool petrol mix used in his racing N type. There is a bottle in my workshop with a petrol/Methanol/Ethanol mix, the petrol has separared out with the ethanol at the bottom. Ethanol is hygroscopic. Use the car regularly is my solution. You could also use the "old" petrol in the lawn mower!
D P Jones

Thanks as always for the ideas and comments. Mr Jones is of course correct - using the car regularly is the best way to prevent the problem in the first place.

I'm not sure of the kerosene solution here - like Dave, I believe that it can affect the engine oil's lubricity, and not in a good way. And I'd prefer to use the extra octane rating of modern fuel to advance the timing slightly, given that my engine is running a little above standard compression. It's certainly very crisp and responsive when running right.

I think Paul may be on to something - the old petrol was in litres (and yes, there were only six of them), and the car was obviously reacting to this :-) I'll be making sure to buy in gallons from here on.... but isn't that illegal now?
Tim Griggs

Hi Tim

Not over here ... although the gallons are a little devalued on the old Imperial Gallon and the price of gas is up on what it used to be! Currently we are at about $4 a US Gallon which is about £2.50/US Gallon or £3/UK Gallon or 66p/liter although I am sure that given the renewed administrations anti-home energy production policies we will see rise sharply now in the coming 4 years. Still, it has a way to go to catch up with Europe :-)

Happy days

Paul
Paul Barrow

This thread was discussed between 19/10/2012 and 08/11/2012

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