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MG MG Y Type - Rear dampers conversion to tubular shocks

Has anyone ever converted the Girling (fitted to the rear axle) lever dampers to a modern tubular shock system?

Does a bolt-on kit exist?

If not, what were the operations involved and the parts used to convert?

I'm considering such a sacrilegious transformation for cost and convenience reasons. Refurbishment of the Girlings would amount to a solid $500 (250£) and I would certainly have to leave the car on the blocks for another couple of months.
Gilles Bachand

Don't know about tube shock conversions for the rears. Know there was one available for the front but that was years ago when no one seemed to be able to rebuild the Girling shocks.
World Wide Auto Parts in Madison WI can rebuild your rear shocks. Call Peter Caldwell @ 800 362 1025. Cost when I had mine done a few years ago was $170 for the pair.
Alternatively Graham Brown @ Vintage and Classic Shock Absorbers in Croydon has them brand new. Contact is @ Links on the Web Site. Terry
Terry O'Brien

Gilles, if your rear shocks are in good condition they will serve you will. If they arent, then I would suggest a rebuild as they are pretty good when in good condition. It may be that your leaf springs are tired and flattened too if you are suffering from a sagging rear end (well the car anyway).

Paul
Paul Barrow

In any event, I did some quick measurements and concluded very rapidly that a tubular shock system would be impossible to install because of clearance/height problems.

Nevertheless, my unsatiable curiosity is now focused on exploring another alternative which might be more possible (with some minor adaptations): installing MGB lever shocks. The priciple advantages would be their inexhaustible availability and relative low price.

The first evident task is that the shock body must me mounted a good 2 inches higher in order that it not protrude below the chassis and be susceptible to damage.

The second is findind a shock link that is a good 2 inch shorter (I believe I might already have found it).

The third is to make depth adjustments between all the components (shock arm eyelet / shock link / rear axle eyelet) so that they line up as they should.

On paper, all this seems technically possible. In a few days, I will borrow a new MGB shock from my local supplier and will test mount it on the Y. Only then will I know for certain if there are minor but insurmountable clearance issues.
Gilles Bachand

Some observations on dampers from someone who has'nt a clue.  I think the the dampers on a YA are totaly inadequate.  Back in the 70s when I started towing a caravan it was obvious that something had to be done, and I fitted a pair of Ford Anglia 105e units, and these brought joy to my heart - they indeed transformed the ride.  On later finding out a little of the technonogy behind damping I seemed just to have struck lucky. The only trouble is that the front and rear damping rates need to be matched to stop pitching [not that matters on a YA, the dampers are not much use anyway].
  You will be aware that there are spacers inside the chassis where the holding bolts pass through to prevent the chassis from collapsing on over enthusiastic tightening, and these will need sleeves fitted if new holes are drilled, or perhaps adapter plates could be fitted.  Anyway best of luck.By the way has anyone fitted improved front dampers, they very poor even when new, and I would say dangerous under braking conditions.  It seems to me that when the YA was designed they had no idea on how dampers worked - may be the YB is an improvement.
Bryan

I have seen YBs with telescopic damopers fitted - the 53 YB which once belonged to John Lawson was so fitted. Someone may know where this car is now. I believe conversions of old to new style dampers was quite common in the late 50s and 60s.
David Mullen

As usual the information can be found on the Y-registers website although this time you must search a bit..., this YT has tubular rear shocks (front Mini ones):
http://www.mgcars.org.uk/mgccy/specialys/yt3208.htm
Willem van der Veer

Oh, this is MARVELOUS!

My moral was just starting to sink after I had measured an MGB damper and concluded that it was too thick and would rub against the leaf springs.

I also measured a Midget damper and it too had 2 inherent problems:

1) I had to find the appropriate link to fit between the axle and the damper arm: 2 to 3 inches long, 3/4 inch thick with each of the 2 studs pointing in opposite directions.

2) In any event, it would probably prove itself to be a bit mushy since it was designed for a car 70% the weight of the Y. Of course, one can use a thicker oil to slow down the pistons. However, since the lever arm is much longer and slender that the MGB's, the added resistance combined with the added weight might damage it in the long run.

Thank you very much for this latest information. I'm going back to my drawing board with a lighter heart.
Gilles Bachand

Gilles,

My pleasure, but before you get too excited, I just read that this special YT has an MGB rear axle that MAY be wider than our standard items?
Willem van der Veer

... and if that is the case, WHICH MGB axle as there are two kinds, and what else is different about the car to balance out any of the changes? Richard's YTB is a very capable car - I know having driven in it - and he has extensively modified the car.

Paul
Paul Barrow

If I understand correctly, his leaf springs have remained at the same relative position to the chassis as before. His wider MGB rear axle was adapted to receive the Y leaf springs which, themselves, were not repositioned. So the 3½ inch clearance between the chassis and the leaf springs is supposed to have remained the same. Deducting 3/8 for the thickness of the adapter plate, there remains 3 inches in which the tubular shock can move about. That seems right.
Gilles Bachand

I have just finished building telescopic conversions for the front suspension of my YA & YT.

I found that the only shock I could find that would fit was a Ford Escort Mk1-Mk2 rear, and it appears the damper rate is very good for the Y.

I am now drawing up a design to use these shocks on the rear as well, but it won't be finished until after Easter now, as I have to start preparing my car for the MG Nationals at Easter.

I will of course send Paul all the drawings once both front and rear designs have survived the 3 month road test.
Tony Slattery

Good on you Tony, do you retian the the wishbone shocks on the front end? I have seen a long time ago a TD with the telescopic shocks bolted to the front of the wishbone pan but forgotten how it was done.
Bryan

Guys,
I haven't visited the site recently so interesting to read the chat on this one. Gilles has been in touch after following the link suggested by Willem and I have answered additional questions. This is not a difficult modification but you do need to use a good brand gas shockie and install decent bump stops to control movement because these small shockers do not have much full extension however a good shockie will give much better control than the standard item. Any further interest I am happy to respond.
Cheers
Richo
Richard Prior

I too have not visited this site for ages - been busy with BGT problems; but will watch closely, because both the 52TD and the 47YA will benefit if we can install better front dampers. TD has telescopics at rear, with great effect, so look forward to doing something similar at the sharp end, once you clever types have finished all the developement work!
Cheers ... John.
John Hall

John,
No need to wait - all the development work has been done! The Y, TD,TF, MGA & B virtually have the identical front end designed by a much youger Alex Issigonis in 1936! My point is there are numerous conversions available off the shelf for MGB even coil over and I would think these could quite easily be made to fit except maybe clearance to the underside of the wings. I have fitted MGB disc brakes to my YT and was a very easy retro fit.
Cheers
Richo
Richard Prior

There is, or was recently a bracket set for a TC, desighned to allow fitment of tube shocks to the rear.
Paul
Paul Gaynor

Sorry, shoulld have included it was on e-bay.
Paul
Paul Gaynor

Inspired by Richard Prior's work, I have just received these brackets (custom made by a machinist) and dampers.

See bigger picture here: http://www.geocities.com/brocoli6/RearSuspension011.jpg

A trial fit indicates that all seems right. I will paint them, install them, test them (as soon as these nearly 4 meters of snow we received this winter has melted) and report back to you.

The long brackets do not need to have an opening in them when designed for a YA. The emergency brake cable follows a different route from a YB.

Gilles Bachand

Gilles, that looks very impressive. Congratulations so far.
I trust that all the final test-driven details will be published on the Y-website?
Willem van der Veer

Gilles what is the maximum extension of these shock absorbers? They certainly appear longer than the ones I fitted. Cheers Richo
Richard Prior

Richard,

Compressed: 8¼ inches
Extended: 12½ inches
Travel: 4¼ inches

The dampers are KYB Gas-a-just #552018: http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?pid=33223

Although the damper's maximum travel is 4¼ inches, I have made new rear axle bump stops which reduces this by ¼ inch in either direction, in order that the damper never reach its limit and be damaged. Total travel in reality is now 3¾ inches. I believe that this should be enough for a comfortable ride in normal conditions, without the rear axle hitting the rubber stops.

I should report back to this posting my observations «in the field» sometime in April.
Gilles Bachand

Gilles,
These are only a couple of mm longer in extension (travel) than the Koni Adjustable Dampers I now use. I hope these more recent adjustable KYBs are better than what I started with because mine would go soft after a couple of miles and were basically useless. At least you have got your bump stops sorted so all the tricky parted is done. Hope it all goes well.
Cheers
Richo
Richard Prior

From Josef Korreck I got some pictures of a period front tubular shock conversion. It uses the Jackall fixing as mounting place, so only for Y's this one!
I think Josef will sell the parts.

Willem van der Veer

SUCCESS! JOY!

Snow having enormously melted (see image - yes, it's like this in Canada...), I took out Eleanor for her first spin of the year in order to test the rear shock conversion to tubular.

Temperature was 55 F. I deliberately chose a somewhat bad road. I drove 40 miles. I had 2 passengers. Everything went fine throughout. I never hit a bump stop. Upon arriving home I even stood on the rear door sill and jumped. Shock performance was the same as when I did the same thing before driving out from the garage initialy.

I prepared this information for you: http://www.geocities.com/brocoli6/ShockConversion.html

PAUL: You can copy everything and put in on your Website.

Gilles Bachand

Congratulations. It looks beautiful.
Willem van der Veer

This thread was discussed between 19/02/2008 and 07/04/2008

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