MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MG Y Type - Tyres for Y type

My cross ply tyres need replacing.Is it a good idea to fit radials?
Jim Price

Jim

Some do - personally I think the car is better on radials provided you drive within their limit. If you go over to radials there are issues about the accuracy of the speedometer and odometer which you may need to have recalibrated and personally speaking I do not think it worth the expense it will cost, versus that very genuine feel of driving the leading edge technology of the time the Y was built.

Your call ... but I know where I put my money and my colours (oops that should be colors now I am over here I guess!).

If you go to www.mgytypes.org and click on Technical Centre, then select Technical Advice from the drop-down menu there is a thread on there concerning Radials on a YB which may be of interest to you.

Incidentally Jim,we do not yet appear to have your Y on the website at www.mgytypes.org - we'd love to welcome you (and any other Y owners you know).

Regards

Paul
Paul Barrow

Jim,

If you have the YB, you can use the 165/80R15 that also fitted to VW Beetles.

If you have an YA, forget radials, unless you are prepared to do mayor work on your wheels.

The YA's rim is only 3 inch wide so any radial with an acceptable height will be too wide. Somewhere in the archives an Australian tells us he used the 16" rims from a Lada Niva 4x4 and had them welded to the YA wheelcentres. He uses 175/80R16 tyres with good results, but here in Holland this size is N/A and I can't find spare wheels.

Proper cross-ply's for the YA can be had from
http://www.vintagetyres.com. They recommend the Avon Tourist size 5.00/5.25-16 because it is more comfortable than the Dunlop.

BTW: If you compare the exact sizes of the Avon and Dunlop on their website, you will notice the Dunlop in size 5.25-16 is much higher than the Avon, even higher than the Avon in size 5.50-16. This means that the Dunlop will give a better ratio (or lower revs at a given speed). Because of this I'm going for the Dunlop.
Willem van der Veer

Oh, and reading through Paul's reply, although he write radials, I think he prefers cross-ply's on a YB, too. "provided you drive within their limit"
Willem van der Veer

Willem is correct - I do! The thread on our Technical Centre however does refer to fitting radials to a YB. Just the thought of change leaves me cold!

Paul
Paul Barrow

Many thanks Willem and Paul for all your comments.
I have run a Magnette ZB for several years now and bought the MG YA only last week. It has only done 1900 mls from new and only about 500 mls in the last 8 years It is immaculate,but I need a good supplier of tyres and service items.
Thanks again
Jim
Jim Price

Jim,

it is possible to fit radials to your YA. I have a friend who fitted London Taxi Tyres to his YA and is quite happy with their performance. However, an important consideration, that has not been previously mentioned, is that a radial tyre (being wider) will not go into your spare wheel locker as the YA opening is 1" smaller than that on the YB. My friend drove around for quite a while carrying his spare in the rear seat. Not much good if you want to carry 4 passengers.

Jack
J.L. Murray

I spoke to Vintage Tyre Supplies this morning and they were as helpful as always. They suggest that the 550R-16-175/80-16 Michelin X would be suitable and it has a 50's period tread pattern. It has the same circumference as the standard cross ply to within a millimetre. And you are safe to 130mph which I know will be a comfort to all Y-type drivers.
They do not recommend the Dunlop Taxi tyre as it is 6-ply and so much stiffer and will spoil the ride, they think.
They will give 5% discount to any club member.
Lastly I agree with Willem. When I need tyres, I will go to the Dunlop with the larger rolling circumference to increase the gearing a tad as the tiny mileage that I do doesn't warrrant radials and the consequent change in character.
Michael Nicholson

Just for the archives, I copied this from the Vintage tyres website:

Dunlop C18:
size 5.00/5.25x16, diameter: 709, section width: 146mm

Avon Tourist:
size 5.00/5.25x16, diameter: 678, section width: 144mm

Michelin X:
size 550Rx16 / 175/80x16, diameter: 688, section width: 148mm
Willem van der Veer

Out of interest, how much would fitting the Dunlop (with the slightly larger rolling circumference) affect the accuracy of the readings on the rev meter and speedo?
Roughly, ball park.

e.g. 60 mph would read 55 mph (assuming meters are accurate)

Come on, someone must be good at arithmetic ;-)

Cheers,
Saul.
Saul

From the date in the handbook the MPH per 1000RPM in 4th gear is 14.6mph, I calculate.
With the Dunlops this will increase to 15.3mph
Michael Nicholson

the "official" calculation would be:

The fourth gear ratio is 1:1, so the propshaft going to the rear axle will be turning the same rev's as the engine.

With a rear axle ratio of 1:5,143, at 1.000 RPM the wheel will be turning 194,44 times a minute.

The circumference of the wheel is (2xPhi)xdiameter. So for the Dunlop that would be (2x1,618)x0,709m = 2,294m circumfence.

So that 2,294m turns 194,44 times per minute, that's 446,12 m/min and that's 26,77km/h and that's 16,64mph!

The Avon does 15,91mph, according to these maths.

To get the same speed at the same rev's with the Avon you'd need a 1:4,918 differential....

Off course all this doesn't take in account the tyre gets squashed a bit under load so the diameter will get smaller, making the circumfence smaller, so probably Michael was right all along, AAARRRGHHH!

I think I'd better do something more useful now, like taking the dog for a walk...
Willem van der Veer

I have Dunlops C18 on my YT. It is a very snug fit in the spare tire compartment. Years ago I had Goodrich 5.50x 16 but had to carry as a spare a 500/525x16 as the Goodrich would not fit. Don't know what the section width was but even though 2mm is not much it might just be sufficient to prevent carrying the Michelin as a spare. Terry
Terry O'Brien

Hey Willem - I'd stick to stamp collecting!

Thanks for the entertainment but do not give up your day job!

Paul
Paul Barrow

My car is a YA 1950. I had been thinking a long time to switch from the original Dunlop crosply tyres to radials, and finaly I did. It looks like a mirakel has been taken place. The handling of the car is very much better now and almost like a TD or MGA with radials. I can recomment this to every Y-guy.
In my study how to do this I discovered that the original rims of 3 inch are to narrow to fit the smalest size of radials as is 175x80x16. You need at least 4,5 or 5 inch. So there are three systems to fit radials.
1. You can have enlarged the wide of the orinal rims by 1,5 or 2 inh. There are tyre-shops they can do it for you by cutting the rim and welding a ring between the two parts. The extra wide comes to the outside of the wheel. You can fit 175x80x16 tyres.
2. The second way is to use rims of other make. F.i. you can use the rims of a Lada Niva with the wheelcentre of the Y. You can fit 175x80x16 tyres.
3. You can take a wheel of other make of 16 inch or 400 mm and fit this to the hub by using an adaptor plate. Btw it is not possible to fit a 15 inch wheel because this will not suite over the steering ball joint.
The last system I used. I have let made adaptor plates with holes for the 5 original studs in a dia of 13 cm, and with 5 studs in a dia of 19 cm for my new wheels of 400mm x 4,5 of a Citroen Traction Avant with 165x80x400 Michelin X tyres. This tyres look very close to the original Dunlop tyres and have the same dia. As I said the handling is 1000% beter now.
Bert Keuren

I contacted Vintage Tyre Supplies again and got a different answer as follows.
"Michael,
Firstly, I do agree that a 3 inch rim is to small for a 175-16 tyre. Also, what most people do not appreciate is that radial tyres generate far greater forces on the road than cross-ply tyres. Even though your vehicle is not that powerful, the forces generated from radial tyres will be transmitted through the vehicles suspension, steering column and chassis. This would not have been taken into account when the vehicle was first designed.
Vintage & classic vehicles have not changed, but road conditions have. No one can expect a pre-war vehicle to behave as a modern vehicle and fitting radial tyres is not the answer. My honest advice is to stick with the original equipment cross-ply tyres and enjoy your vehicles quirky characteristics for surely, that is the true spirit of vintage & classic motoring.
Kind regards,

Grant.
www.vintagetyres.com
Tel: 01590 612261"
Michael Nicholson

Three cheers for Grant at Vintage Tyres. Radials put much more stress on the car and suspension than do cross-plies - and without going into the physics of roll behaviour, slip/castor angles, damper characteristics and so on, a chassis designed in 1938 isn't supposed to do what a modern car can do. And as Grant says, it's part of the character of the car to have that rather tip-toes crossply feeling, I think.

And on a purely personal note, I think radials look wrong on a prewar car design - much as a DS Citroen would look wrong on crossplies.

I've run my YA on Avon 5.25x16 HM Tourists for the last 15,000 miles and they're less than half worn, have been very comfortable and give good predictable grip. And the car looks like I think it should, with its tall tyre sidewalls and sharp shoulders.
Tim Griggs

All I can say is I agree 1000% with my former local supplier - upgrading may be interesting but the designers sunk great effort, and not inconsiderable expense into the design, I enjoy it as it was meant to be and drive within the tolerances of the equipment relative to the road conditions and weather. I have great fun, knowing I am experiencing something that my Garndfather would have - and this is whY i love mY Ys so much!

Paul
Paul Barrow

To all those fans of cros-ply's.
Having read last messages I would say the following. The YA type has the same suspension, chassis and steering as has the YB, TD, MGA and MGB. Why do we accept these cars on radial tyres and our YA not. When you have Michelin X tyres, dating pre-war from the '30s, they look close to cros-ply tyres.
I surely know that when you once could feel the fine ride on radials you would change your mind. All the theory of constructing and handling flows away against he practice of having radials on the YA. But I will respect your choice for cros-ply, I had them too but now I am more happy with my radials, they look great and they ride great and specially more safer.
Bert Keuren

Bert,
I agree with you about the Y's "state of the art suspension", although the YA may be a little bit less sturdy.

Next time we meet, I will gladly have myself convinced about the radial-issue with a testdrive (that may be scary because of your LHD....)
Willem van der Veer

I HAVE FOUND THESE DISCUSSIONS ON RADIALS VERY INTERESTING . IF SOME KIND PERSON CAN POINT ME IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION TO SIMPLY FIT RADIALS TO MY YT I WOULD NOT HESITATE .
I ALSO OWN A 1948 ROVER P3 WHICH I HAVE RECENTLY CHANGED FROM CROSS PLYS TO RADIALS . THE DIFFERENCE IS AMAZING - THE ROVER NOW DRIVES AND HANDLES LIKE A MODERN CAR .
David Ardill

David Ardill,
The easyest way to put radials on your YA is to have made my first option, widening te rims of your YA wheels from 3 to 4,5 inch en fit radial tyres of 175x80x16. The best are Michelins because of the round, and oldtimer-look, shape of the tyre, other makes are more rightangled.
When widening the rims it is the best to let the wheelcentre in the middle of the rim, so the wheelbase wil mot change. The workshop has to weld two rings in the rim, each of 0,75 inch, one at the outside of the wheelcentre and one at the inner side. Another possibility is to weld one ring of 1,5 inch in the rim and replace the wheelcentre. The wheelshop wil advice you. succes!
Bert Keuren

David Ardill,
You are welcome to borrow my set of widened wheeels with radials to test drive on your car, to convince you are doing the right thing. They are Y-centres with Lada Niva rims welded in just the right place (with thanks to Bill Spall for his creativity & research). Keep the spare as an original cross ply just in case, so it will still fit in the compartment. There are spare wheels to be had around OZ, you only need four more & keep the originals.

The greatest benefit of radials is obviously ride comfort, but running a close second is improved performance under braking in less than ideal conditions (wet weather). Using radials also allow you to run without tubes, as radials use tubeless technology that is safer than tube tyres without "safety rims". Radials do not suffer sudden deflation and subsequent loss of control like tubed cross-plies.

I respect those who run cross-plys, but I intend to take my grandchildren for rides in my Y, and the increased safety margin for them provided by radials (however small) is not negotiable. I have a set of standard wheels with cross-plies for those "original is best" show days, but when on driving days, it's radials or stay at home.

Yours in Y's
Tony Slattery
Tony Slattery

One point to consider on the debate of crossply versus radial ply tyres is, if you widen the rim. How safe is this wheel with the welded ring in. I know this is done for circuit driving but this is for use on public roads.
You have to ask the question how good is the weld! Will there be any weld embrittlement will there be any residual stress in the wheel that will be revealed after time. Is the wheel round and uniform or so wobbly as to put additional stress on the chassis.
A wheel constantly flexes so any flaw will eventually open up, and do not forget this wheel is not chucked away after a couple of seasons, it should hopefully still be serviceable after another 50 years of use! We do now live in a world of litigation.
Steve Randle

The system of welding a ring between the rim is done by wheels of racing cars. The forces on this wheels are very more than that on the wheels of our Y's. Of course the welding must be done correctly, but there is no need to be afraid of broken wheels. Btw. By the system of widening the existing rims you have to use a tube in the radial tyre because the rim is not made for tubeless tyres. When you use a rim of other make, f.i. Lada Niva or any other make with 16 inch wheels with narrow wide of 4,5 to 5 inch, you can use tubeless tyres without a tube. When using wheels of other make of 16 inch you can fit these on the YA by using adaptor discs or by welding the original wheel centre of the Y in that rim.
I am very happy with my conversion to radials and every Y-owner is welcome at my home and have a test drive to prove I am right.
Bert Keuren

An alternative not as yet mentioned is to weld Volksy 15 inch rims on to Y-type wheel centres (they fit perfectly). I would only do it to a spare set of wheels, but you remove the rivets holding on the rims and having done the same to the VW wheels, simply weld the VW rims to the Y-type wheel centres. The rolling diameter finishes up about the same if you use 165-15 radials. They will not fit into the YA spare wheel compartment. I recently sold our concours-winning YA and planned the above for "every day" use with hugely improved handling (especially with an anti-sway bar) and to preserve my as-new rare 525-16's.
Barry Bahnisch

Barry,
My experience is that 15 inch wheels wil not fit over the outer steering ball joints. Also will the wheelcentres of a 16 inch wheel of the YA not fit into a 15 inch VW-wheel. Perhaps you mean this conversion with the 15 inch wheels of the YB. Please let us know.
Bert Keuren

Bert, I have checked with my friend who has done the VW wheel conversion and I was incorrect in that the Y-type wheel 'centres' did have to be turned down by approx half an inch, then the VW rims were welded on. No trouble with the tie rod ends but in any case the rims could be offset to overcome this. Apparently though there are 16 inch radials available in Oz which are an excellent fit on YA wheels and even look original so a thorough investigation may be advisable before embarking on modifications?
Barry Bahnisch

A friend of mine here in Adelaide has fitted Bridgestone 175/80.16's to his standard YT rims. Apparently Riken also make this size. They are used tyres imported from Japan and may not be available new in Australia (as there would be a very limited market for this size). These imported tyres are often almost new. It would be necessary to contact your local companies who import tyres from Japan if there are such companies.
Barry Bahnisch

Just when you thought this thread was all tyred out (!)

I was wondering whether it is normal to have Y-type wheels balanced when new tyres are fitted?

I need a new set of tyres for my YT. (In order to avoid re-starting an old discussion I won't say what type I'm going for, but I have made up my mind). I was about to ask whether fitting included wheel balancing when I thought I should check whether this is normal procedure or whether I was about to make a fool of myself for making such a request.
I checked my wheels last night and they have no balancing weights clipped to them anywhere.

So should they be balanced or left as nature intended?

Cheers,
Saul.
Saul

Saul,

I think nature intended them to be balanced? IIRC, according to the Operating and Service manual, in the old days the tyres (and tubes?) had balancing marks on them.

Do have your wheels balanced when fitting the tyres, although you may find your wheels out of true (bent), making it impossible to balance them dynamically properly. It will be possible however to balance it statically (at least that is what my local tyre-man said, when trying to balance my YA wheels)

Ask the balancer to centre the wheels on the bolt-holes instead of the single centrehole, because the centre-hole may not be perfectly in the centre. If he can't do that, find another tyre-specialist that can (or try a Citroën-dealer as older Citroëns don't even have a centrehole).

Above said, because of the moderate speeds we are supposed to drive, I don't think an unbalanced wheel will be very noticable?
Willem van der Veer

Good news,
Michelin has remanufactured radial tyres for f.i. MG YA in the size 550 R 16. They have the profile of the famous Michelin X tyres, so oldtimer-look. This tyres will fit to the YA rims, no need for con-version. Isn't this good news?
Bert Keuren

That is good news indeed, especially because coming friday a Michelin-representative is visiting at work (I'm the fleet-manager of a car leasing company). I might seek sponsorship.....
Willem van der Veer

Hi Everyone - This has been such an interesting thread with so much valuable input that someone who knows about tyres/tires should condense it all into a guideline on tyre/tire selection. Anyone game enough?
Rob Dunsterville

This thread was discussed between 16/04/2005 and 11/06/2005

MG MG Y Type index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG MG Y Type BBS now