MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG ZR ZS ZT Technical - A week with a ZS

Well, after a week with a brand new MG ZS 180, it was dropped back to MG Rover this morning. I was loaned it for a week to take part in the Dunlop Targa Rally Narva Tour which follows the route of the main tarmac rally and we got to drive on 80% of the special stages under closed road conditions - in other words 'legalised hooning' on country roads

Have to confess that I wouldn't go out an buy one now. While the chassis is good compared to a lot of other cars out there, there are too many annoying little things which spoil the car for me.

IMHO, the 2.5KV6 is seriously under-powered. While a surge in performance is noticeable over 3k, it really could do with at least an extra 50bhp. The car did 'loosen' up over the week (I got it with a mere 900km on the clock) but still lacked the sort of grunt that the chassis could easily cope with. I know I'm used to a turbo, but while the V6 was very flexible in its power delivery, pulling out of 'slow' corners was painfully slow at times. An aftermarket exhaust and filter would help, but still wouldn't be enough IMHO. 180bhp (more like 170 in reality) from a V6 is pretty pathetic isn't it?

Internally, the interior is totally outdated and that awful imitation carbon effect trim smacks of cheapness. Rear passenger leg room is appalling if you want to travel any distance. I drove some 800km yesterday and really missed having a lumbar support on the drivers seat. My back was aching by the time I got home. Driving position was good though with the instrumentation well laid out. Instrument pack looks nice, but the numbers were difficult to read in the twilight while illuminated. Ventilation was poor with the aircon off and just relying on the vents.

I did like the chassis. While not exploring the limits (not my car at the end of the day so didn't thrash it), it coped extremely well with some of New Zealand's finest country roads. Steering was sharp and precise (very poor lock though which meant large turning circle) and car went round corners nicely thanks to the double wishbone suspension up front. The engineers certainly got this area right. Brakes were impressive and showed no sign of fade one they were bedded in. However, I have a feeling that if pushed very hard they would not be up to the job. Something I found when I fitted the same set-up to my 220. ABS and EBD all worked okay and were helpful in the wet. A good thing considering that there were some extremely steep drops on some corners! Continental tyres fitted were great in the wet but lacked lateral grip in the dry which affected dry road cornering - excessive understeer which I would not expect. A set of road legal slicks would sort that out though
Could probably do with the damping being a little stiffer for fast road driving, but you've got to settle for a happy medium in a normal road car.

All in all a nice car, but it really is showing its age now. When you see what else is on offer, I think that the ZS isn't really good value for money which is a shame. I am an avid MG-R 'fan' as I have only owned one non MG-R car since I started to drive - but the ZS isn't a good enough all round package to justify its $43,000 price tag.
Gary
Gary Boxall

R U sure your were driving a ZS 180?
The ZS is an acclaimed performer, yet you seem disatisfied, I am suprised!!

How come it was fitted with Conti's, are they shipped to NZ with them, or were they your choice?

>>'pulling out of 'slow' corners was painfully slow at times'

Whats a slow corner?
The beauty of the ZS is that all corners are fast, there are no slow corners. :-)

Kelv.



Kelvin

Doesn't the 180 have the same seats as the ZT which has lumbar support? Definitely the luxury 45s have the 75 seats.
Also, the KV6 doesn't start to give of it's best until 5k miles and even at 10k miles really starts to sing, so power delivery will still be muted at 1-2k miles on the clock.
FWIW.
Martin

Martin,

I don't want to sound like Mega,but the seats on the ZS are one of the things which put me off the car.
I think its partly the length of the seat cushion support-which enables me to drive 400 miles in my old Rover 218 GSD without feeling tired.
If only they could marry the Rover comfort with the
MGs suspension/handling!





tTony

Me thinks Gary is a bit spoilt with his slightly tuned 220 Turbo :-) I do agree that like most Rover engines, they do need a few miles on them before they start to perform their best, but see where Gary is coming from.

Although a ZS is hardly slow, its impression of speed is far greater because of the nice noise it makes and the way the standard induction works. Best thing for a KV6 is a nice supercharger conversion, as they do in the states with the Freelander's KV6.

Gareth
Gareth Kidman

I have to agreee with Gary. I've just been out on track with a load of Elises, Exiges, a TF and whole load of other cars. I was passed by everything (except an MX5!). I need more power.

Of course, it could just be my lack of ability and the seriously worn tyres.

Ralph
Ralph

Car was supplied with Continetals fitted. I can only assume that they were factory fitted as the car had come off the ship only a few days before I picked it up.
Definately a 180. I appreciate that the engine needs time to 'loosen up', but it still needs more power.
Seats definately did not have lumbar suports. While they are comfortable on short - medium lenght journeys and do hold you in place nicely, it was the long drive which I found a problem. The seats in my 220 are considerably harder, but the presence of a lumbar support makes them better IMHO. And considering that the seats in the ZS are pretty damn similar in design to the ZS, it would appear to be a cost cutting exercise by leaving them off.
Gary
Gary Boxall

Hi folks,


I have to agree with Gary on many aspects i too have driven a ZS180 and its quick but not as quick as a tuned T series turbo. The handling is very good, but i did like the seats and they had lumbar supports on the one i tried! I wasn't keen on the ZS till i tried one. I have also tested the ZR160 which is a far lesser prospect. I've driven both 16v and 8v Maestro Turbos and they are quicker then both the ZS and ZR. If you pop poly bushes on your Maestro, decent damping and springs and tighten up the rack the handling ain't too far behind either.
Robert Purser

16k miles on my ZS180 now and it's starting to fly. Michelin Pilots all round, the fronts are just about gone, no complaints on the grip front. I have lumbar support but don't think it makes a lot of difference for me. I obviously fit the car better than Gary, having had a Honda VTEC and a Rover 420 before that, all with very similar seats. Have done a lot of miles in some very long days in all 3 and don't find it tiring, either when towing or when I'm really in a hurry.
David

Gary the longest driving stint I have ever done in the 180 did was up to Scotland. 7 hours in total, with a break of about an hour for lunch. The seat remained comfortable throughout the long journey.

Kelvin
ZS180 33K+ miles
Kelvin

Also, although the V6 is a generally torquey motor by comparison to the K 4 pot, I have found that on the ZT160 V6 keeping the revs at around 3500 and then booting it, it gets very responsive. From below 3500 it is a bit sluggish admittedly, especially with the ZT bodyshell, so use of the gearbox is definitely called for and the ZT 160 has exactly the right spacing to make this a lot of fun on country lanes!
I admit though, I chose the ZT over the ZS because of the more up-to-date and stylish interior.
FWIW
Martin

The ZS180 is a quick car, not a fast one. It needs more capacity and torque ideally, not just headline HP. The stepped power delivery is a standard feature with 3000rpm being the step point. This no doubt being due to the way the ECU is mapped to control the flap valve in the inlet to alter the internal volumes/lengths. Compared to other 2.5 litre V6 engines the power is competitive, but the mainstream competitors have moved to 3.0 to 3.2 litres, which is a capacity that would turn the car into a fast one even if the power only rose to just over 200bhp.

Interesting to see some of the spec differencies between different markets - lumber support, tyre spec. Generally I wonder what detail differences there are between the two market specs, as I know Gary's style and feel that he would find some fundamental difference between what he has just experienced. This wouldn't expend to the interior, which was dated when the ZS arrived in 2001.

The seat issue is something that could be related to the lack of individual front and rear tilt adjustment for the drivers seat, rather than the simple up and down feature. I found that by adding a 10mm spacer under the front seat mounts that the raised front edge gave me that little extra comfort that eased a tendency to slide forward during long journeys.

Overall the model is in need of a freshen up in several areas and I hope that what will appear to tide the range over until the RDX60 replaces the current 45. Whatever appears it is certain to fall short of the expectations of some. Adding a Callaway 250 bhp supercharger conversion would certainly eliminate any shortcoming on the power front!!

Rog

Roger Parker

>> 2.5KV6 is seriously under-powered << True, but this is done on purpose due to the torque limit on the PG1 gearbox.

>> 170 bhp from a V6 is pretty pathetic isn't it? << Not for a 2.5l

>> the interior is totally outdated << True

>> and that awful imitation carbon effect trim smacks of cheapness << What carbon effect trim? Sure you're not in a ZR? ;-)

>> Rear passenger leg room is appalling if you want to travel any distance << True

>> I drove some 800km yesterday and really missed having a lumbar support on the drivers seat. << ZS 180 comes with ZT seats, driver's one has adjustable lumber support (although it's hard to find the control as it's not where you'd expect to find it - it's on the front of the seat base below your legs.

>> Driving position was good though with the instrumentation well laid out. Instrument pack looks nice, but the numbers were difficult to read in the twilight while illuminated. << True

>> Ventilation was poor with the aircon off and just relying on the vents. << Never been a problem for me, but then the climate is slightly different? (just a guess)

>> (very poor lock though which meant large turning circle) << True - this annoys the hell out of me. :-(

>> I have a feeling that if pushed very hard [the brakes] would not be up to the job. << True, when pushed hard i've found them lacking a little.

>> Continental tyres fitted were great in the wet but lacked lateral grip in the dry which affected dry road cornering << My one was/is fitted with Michelin Pilots from new (which are IMO great on this car). Could this be a NZ thing?

>> Could probably do with the damping being a little stiffer for fast road driving << LEDA Springs do a conversion for the ZS

>> I think that the ZS isn't really good value for money which is a shame. << ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Blimey, they must REALLY have put the price up in NZ, i got my ZS 180 for £13,800 UKP, this is a good £5,000 cheaper than the next V6 powered saloon over here - i'm astonished that you feel it's not VFM, in the UK it can't be beat by a BIG margin and this more than makes up for the cars other shortcomings IMO. Any idea what the exchange rate is NZ dollars to UK pounds? Would be interesting to get a price comparison...

SF
>>
Scarlet Fever

Andy, I've just checked the conversion rate. It is currently 0.3617, which puts the price at £15,553.10 (based on the NZ$43,000 quoted by Gary) - not too dissimilar to the list price over here.

Talking of Michelin Pilots... I've found them to be extremely noisy, particularly on concrete road surfaces. I've just fitted Pirelli P0s to the front and it is amazing how much quieter the car is.

From Gary's description it would appear that there are quite a few differences in the spec of the ZS in NZ. Are the cars build locally or shipped from the UK? I know in the old days that CKDs were shipped out to the provinces and then built to local specifications.

Ralph
Ralph

The cars are built in the UK and shipped out.

May have to retract comment about the lumbar support as I was looking for a 'knob' on the side of the seat as per other Rover cars. Wasn't aware of one under the front as described by Scarlet.

The car also cmae with one of those 'high' spoilers. While it may look nice, definately restricts rear view vision and not terribly 'safe' IMHO. Would prefer the more subtle spoiler on the back for that reason.

Gary
Gary Boxall

spoilers are a matter of customer choice, the low one is available on either 4 door or 5 hatch model.
Found the lumbar support control yet ?
RTFM (and the pre-sales brochures) :-)
David

Thanks for you usual helpful comments Mr S. However, if you care to actually read my first post fully, you'll see that I only had the car for a week and it is now back with MG-R. It didn't have a maual either.
Gary
Gary Boxall

>> While it may look nice, definately restricts rear view vision and not terribly 'safe' IMHO <<

Very true - looks great IMO, not sure whether it's effective (they say it is, but i wouldn't know), however i seem to spend the entire journey paranoid about whether there is a Police car hiding in the massive blind spot! LOL :-) It's not so much that it's big, it's more that the wing is actually quite thick and is set at 'horizon level' making it difficult to see cars approaching from a distance. Not all bad though, I use reflections in the inner surface of the side posts of the spoiler when reversing, you can see a distorted view of the rear of the car and this helps judge distances (bit like those lenses you can get on MPV / 4x4s) Also is a good excuse to keep the car shiney! :-D

SF

Scarlet Fever

This thread was discussed between 03/11/2003 and 06/11/2003

MG ZR ZS ZT Technical index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG ZR ZS ZT Technical BBS now