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MG ZR ZS ZT Technical - Not really an MG, but anyway...

OK, I admit it, I got caught in the act of cheating.

I'm an Elise owner, who's thinking of fitting the 2.5 KV6 engine of the 75/ZT to my car. But there are a few issues to that. Now, I'm nto that technical, and I've only sterted looking at this, but..

Supposed there's some technical guru here who can answer my questions, I'll go ahead and fire them off.

1) The weight of the 1.8 K is around 135kg. What is the KV6's weight?

2) The 75 has 1.8, 2.0 and 2.5 engines. Are there any differences in i.e. gearbox, mountings, axes and other stuff that will need adjustments when fitting it to my car?

3) does anybody have the dimensions of both 1.8 and 2.5 litre engines, as the last one is what I would fit?

Hoping to find some answers here,

BR,

PB
Pascal Buyens

Pascal,

I have done many engine conversions with MGs in the past and the KV6 into the MGF was one I was looking into last year.

The main problem for the F was the width of the engine when viewed from the end. The front bank of cylinders requires the bulkhead between the engine bay and passenger compartment to be moved forward. As this would encroach on my driving space and being the dimension that I am I can't consider reduced driving space so I have not pursued the conversion.

I do not know if the Elise engine bay has more space between the rear axle line (a line drawn between the centres of each rear wheel) and the bulkhead, but it will need to have this if you are to avoid body modifications. Having said that the advantage you have is that a left hand drive car means that the driver is in front of the gearbox!

You can get a rough idea of the space you need from these dimensions. from the centre of the rear wheel measure forward 58cm. The edge of the front cylinder head and the exhaust is that measurment from the wheel centre. The engine is higher than the 1.8 but in different places. This may conflict with the engine bay cover but I do not have a measurment for this to hand.

I have no weight data, toher than I expect the engine weight will be closer to 200kg.

Rog
Roger Parker

Pascal, something to think about.. The V6 sure is nice and the sound is something else. However, shortly there will be a supercharged version of the 1.8K Series, putting out something like 215-230bhp, a fair bit more than the V6 (178).

If its power that you are after, I'd wait for this engine and try and get hold of one - big bonus is that it won't be half as hard to fit.

If its the sound you're after, obviously we can't compare the V6 to the supercharged 1.8 as the latter doesn't exist yet (at least outside Longbridge), but it would have a challenge to beat the roar of the V6. (Which the thought of brings a smile to my face :D )

Whatever you do, good luck!

Steve.
Steve Childs

Not that it matters, just curious really, but how much intrusion would there be Roger? How much seat travel would be lost? If MG Rover makes another mid engine roadster they may want to increase the wheelbase a couple of inches if that’s all it would take to broaden the market potential.
George Champion

Roger,

Thanks for the info. I'll look into it during this weekend. As for the weight, it's supposed to be 20-25kg heavier than the 1.8. Assuming that the 1.8 weighs 135kg completely, it should be around 150-160kg. But I'll know for sure as soon as I get some news from MG/Rover Belgium.

Steve,

It's not the sound that I'm after. People that have heard my car always tell me that I have about thé loudest Elise around (have put a Bell & Colvill exhaust on it, and no cat, PiperCross filter and there's a Vauxhall throttle body, waiting to be fit, somewhere in my garage).

The thing is, I've been looking at superchargers to fit to my car as well, but if you look a the Lotus thread about the TT 260 conversion, I'm getting a bit afraid of paying lots of money, just to have to put the car back in the garage after a short drive.

The reason I want to go vor a V6 is that it's obviously a lot torquier than a 4 potter, and the fact that you can go quite far with tuning the engine as well. I'm just looking at the figures of the ZT 260...

Anywa, it's still all just an idea, but I have to see if this will be manageable.
Pascal Buyens

>> I'm just looking at the figures of the ZT 260... <<

That's the none supercharged V8. :(

I know what you mean about the current supercharger option, via Turbo Technics. I've heard of a few going up in smoke, but if you get one developed by the manufacturer, that *shouldn't* be as likely to happen.

(he says, touching wood!)

Steve.
Steve Childs

Oops... Din't know the ZT 260 has a V8.

Anyway, putting in other cams, bigger valves, and flow the head of the V6, I think 200BHP should be in range.

Now if only that call from the dealer came...

As for the TT conversion: teh 190 seems to be quite reliable, but the 260 is a bit "over the top" if you ask me... Maybe I should wait and see what the 330 version will do.
Pascal Buyens

330 version? Jeezus, what have they done, built a new K series engine in titantium? ;)

Steve.
Steve Childs

Oops... typo, should be 230. That's what you get when putting a way too smal portable's keyboard under my fingers...
Pascal Buyens

Pascal,

The first thing to check is what the authoritys in your country think about such a conversion. In Holland it could be a money- and time consuming issue because there isn't a homologation for your car with a 6-cilinder engine. This means extensive testing which is expensive. I went threw it with a V8 conversion on my MGB. In Holland the issue is that if you change the number of cilinders, you have to request new car papers. So fitting a turbo would not be a problem over here.
Peter
Peter

Peter, we have about the same issues in Belgium.

Fitting that extra two cylinders will cost me a lot of money: will have to get new papers, have the car go throught the homologation process, and reinsure it which will probably be the biggest "resource taker".

Anyway, as I said, it's still under investigation...
Pascal Buyens

Back to the fitting issues of a KV6, I feel that from the rough measurments that an extra 2 inches would be enough as the bulkhead has a slope so that it is tighter at the top. Height issues would probably demand a similar growth, nothing that is beyond someone determined enough.

The current 2.5 KV6 comes in three flavours, 160, 177 and 190Ps. The 177Ps is the standard format engine that has been around for some years now. To achievfe the 190Ps only very minor changes have been amde to engine periferals, except for the 4 degree change to the inlet cam timing. This clearly done in an environment where at the time the engines were bought in from another company and significant engine spec changes would be significantly more costly than now with Midland Powertrain being part of the company.

In detail the engines share the same valve and port sizes with the 1.8 VVC engine and as such is as responsive to careful modifications as have been proven on these. I have no doubt that the quite repeatable minimum of 15% increase in power seen by careful cleaning up of the ports and subtle reshaping of the back of the valves will be as effective on the KV6. This will push the engine beyond 200Ps easily and this will also provide a linear increase throughout the rev range, unlike a cam change that alters the power delivery.

Then there is the prospect of oter changes to the spec, but now there is a risk of losing some of the low speed torque. However whilst the 4 cylinder K series has forced induction developments rememebr that there is a big gap between the 2.5 KV6 and the 4.6V8, and the V8 is too big for the ZS, which is likely to be filled very nicely by a forced induction KV6.

On another point I would not be surprised to see additional front engine rear drive configurations using the KV6. How many MGB owners would look to that I wonder!

Rog
Roger Parker

Roger,

Why don’t you lead the way with a KV6 MGB as you did with fuel injected V8 conversions and we’ll see how popular it becomes. What choice do MG roadster lovers have until the X70 becomes a reality? How much does a KV6 weigh?
George Champion

Roger,

Thanks for the explanation. My car has got the "Elise VVC" boot, meaning this is higher than the normal boots, in order to fit the VVC (which is heigher than a standerd 1.8 IIRC).

George,

This is not official yet, but it seems that the KV6 is only 20-25kg heavier then a 1.8 K. I've been told that engine + gearbox and all necessary stuff around it weigh 135kg.
Pascal Buyens

This thread was discussed between 13/09/2001 and 17/09/2001

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