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MG ZR ZS ZT Technical - That'll be be licence gone update
| Not banned just yet, still fighting and got it adjourned. Three bits of good news These policemen must learn to fill in the paperwork properly.Tut tut. Wrong make of car, wrong date etc, useless, and I now have a spotless licence, for now anyway. Now have to get a mouth piece to fight the next bit. Bloke after me got 28 days, not bad, will accept that, if I have to. Rob. Is the 24th August still the same venue?? Jeff |
| Jeff Patterson |
| The letter of the law is specific If the plod got the wrong car and the wrong date then you are not guilty! If the charge sheet is wrong then by all means goto court and say... That isnt my car and i wasnt there at the time of the charge. Therefore you must discharge me! they cant change it after that otherwise it is another charge. of course you shouldnt help them in getting it right. what they are charging you with is what they have charged you with down to the last letter, not something similar. Bernadette Devlin a murdering IRA terrorist got off because the cops spelt her name wrong. Get a solicitor and go to court! You will get away with iot if the details are wrong! |
| Neil |
| Doesn't matter about the car on its own, was told by my solicitor, they can change that, but with the date aswell I have a chance of saying what a plonker in not so many words, and was the speed right etc. Reg. number was right, but I don't drive a Rover 25, (car make) and his statement in which he says to be true etc was dated and signed the 1st April(apropriate don't you think) but I was stopped on the 3rd April. Bit obvious I was there as I had a five day wonder and had to produce though, can't get away with that can I. Was within a whisker of being dropped and I thought 'what a result', two magistrates were going to chuck it out but the woman magistrate in the middle wouldn't let it go. |
| Jeff Patterson |
| Should have been chucked out get alibi for 1st April if that is the date on the charge sheet then that the date. If you can prove you were elsewhere then... |
| Neil |
| I lost |
| Jeff Patterson |
| If you don't mind me asking: what was the penalty? |
| llllllll |
| Sounds like you were shafted! If they got all the details of the offence wrong they cannot commit! If the charge says the 1st THEN THAT'S THE DATE oh Sorry I think we'll move Guy Fawkes day to oh I dunno the 1st of July....remember remember the 1st of July. Doenst work does it. Kick your crap solicitor into touch! |
| Neil |
| 56 days and £350 fine. They said computer error on all of the incorrect charges and went back to coppers note book and updated the charge. Apparently legal. Not happy and got shouted at by the beak for driving at 50 miles over the speed limit. THATS MILES OVER THE SPEED LIMIT MR. PATTERSON TOTALLY IRISPONSABLE, no a loser then. |
| Jeff Patterson |
| Hi. Having had personal experience of police errors and offences I can confirm that if the policeman makes a simple arror such as date, registration, name etc the matter is rectified at the court. So this is what you do!! The summons can often arrive three or four months after the offence, just as you hope that it's been forgotten. You notice blatent errors and you say NOTHING, you plead guilty by post. The case is heard, you are fined and points apply on your licence. You then wait until a date more than SIX months after the offence took place. You call CPS office and tell them that you've been convicted incorrectly because of whatever reason. You ask their advice. Their advice will be to appeal. You then put in an appeal and a hearing date is set. About a week before the appeal takes place you hear from the police that they won't be contesting it. TYhe appeal is granted - you don't even have to turn up, and you win. Your points are taken off and your fine is refunded. I know this to be 100% correct because it all happened to me and the above was the legal advice I received. But do wait a full six months after the offence as then your summons will be timed out. If you do it within the six months the police just recharge you. I got six points back and a refund of a £400 fine. Alleged 102 on the A1M at 5am (wrong date on summons - oh dear.) I was innocent of course. Good luck Roche |
| roche bentley |
| Waiting 6 months to apeal is not much use if you got a ban!!!!! You will have done your ban and be back on the road by then. |
| David Witham |
| Hi David. We need to take the usual delays into consideration. Example - Offence commited in April. Summons typically arrives in July/August. Typical court date, say end of September or October. If you think a ban is likely, plead not guilty and ask for extended court date because of holidays etc. The point is that the police cannot issue a summons six months after the offence unless they have served a notice of prosecution. My summons arrived four months after the date of the alleged offence and the court case took place almost six months to the day. So if I had been banned I would only have been banned for a short period. Now if you get done for a heavy offence such as Drink Driving or Dangerous Driving then the system seems to rush these through quicker and DD offences around Christmas are processed so quickly that sometimes the guilty spend a happy Christmas behind bars. The defence I have recommended is ideal for speeding offences 30 mph over the limit where the police refuse to issue a penalty ticket and want you up before the beak. Cheers |
| roche bentley |
| that much over the limit is selfish and bloody stupid I lost a good friend who was totally innocent when a speeder lost control at 100 plus and crossed the central reservation anyone who does that speed on the public road is a prat and should be banned jeff you got off lightly learn from it |
| someoneswhossuffered |
| I never understand why it is illegal and 'bloody stupid' (to some) in this country whilst speeds far in excess of that are normal and legal in Germany! I also never understand why some people that throw insults at others have to hide behind an 'alias'. |
| Ted Newman |
| piss off to germany then and wait until you lose someone |
| someoneswhossuffered |
| Ah isn't he nice! If you read my comments properly you will see I said 'I never understand' - hoping that with your obviously superior knowledge you would explain why there is a difference! Never mind mummy be will be along to tuck you in in a minute - school starts again tomorrow. |
| Ted Newman |
| typical attitude assuming I'm a bloke I'm not, just a pissed off woman who lost a friend whose little boy no longer has mummy to tuck him in there's nothing wrong with speed where appropriate I've been on track days but on the road where it's the innocent who suffer it if stupid and jeff is a prat |
| someoneswhossuffered |
| On the assumption it is the genuine Roche posting, I find it a little odd that as a public figure he's advising on the legal loophole that exists in the case of speed in excess of 30mph over the limit, especially given that he also promotes the Lancaster insurance frequently on the MGOC BBS. Maybe this is why MGOC members find other insurance companies cheaper on their quotes. But then again, Roche is not one given to political correctness in his club newsletter. |
| Martin ZT |
| I assumed you were a 'bloke' because where I come from ladies dont use the sort of language that you used - at least not in an open conversation. If you have genuinely lost a friend in a road accident then you have my sympathy as I too lost a friend in a road accident, albeit 50 years ago, but every loss of life is a tragic loss for someone. But it brings me back to my original question.... And remember blanket speed limits in this country were introduced not as SAFETY measures but to reduce fuel usage during a period of international tension and fuel shortages and now it is just simpler to justify them on safety grounds and thus make it easier to collect extra revenue for the the chancellor - a cynic I may be but that is what life does to you. |
| Ted Newman |
| Roche....you are my HERO! Mega |
| M EGA |
| Hi Martin. yes it's me and I don't contribute under a pseudonym. I'm certainly not PC either as you've appreciated. Indeed I have contempt for people who are over the top where PC is concerned. You are surprised that I reveal a legal loophole. Why? If your solicitor gave you the same advice and you got off speeding in a safe environment, you'd be pleased and happy to pay him for his advice. All I've done is passed on my experience to help others in a similar position. I don't condone dangerous driving or doing 50 in a 30 unless the 30 unless the limit has been deliberately imposed on an open dual carriageway to improve revenue from a speed camera. Some cars are safe on some roads in certain conditions in excess of our blanket limits. If "other members" find other companies cheaper on their quotes why do over 27,000 members, more than half the membership insure with Lancaster. If you didn't get a better value quote when you last tried, try again and I'll follow it through for you. We are particularly good at the moment on the Z series. Thanks for the plug opportunity. :) And before someone asks, no, in my opinion breaking the speed limit in a safe environment is not like committing a crime and no I wouldn't help someone get off a murder. Roche |
| roche bentley |
| Roche Martin ZT aka Martin Williamson, MGOC member, for clarification. This is how Jeff started his original post (in the archives): "Just got stopped doing 120mph on the A1 at Peterborough in my ZS180, and I was slowing down." Safe environment? Would you still offer the same advice if you knew that the person in question was exceeding the limit by 50mph on a lesser A road, or, even doing 65mph in a 30mph built-up zone? If Jeff had had an accident and killed someone, surely that is tantamount to murder, albeit legally manslaughter, since his actions were pre-determined to drive at that speed knowing the potential hazard his speed created on a dual carriageway? I'd agree that motorways when empty and dry are probably safe environments, and I have never understood why a motorway with all its restrictions on the type of traffic have the same speed limit as an A road dual carriageway with the potential for slow moving tractors, cyclists and pedestrians. Whilst Ted makes the point that speed limits were introduced as a fuel economy measure, wasn't this at a time that few cars managed the ton? When roads were generally less busy? When there were more drivers and fewer morons on the road? On the other hand cars are much safer now - for the occupants, and with better control systems and technology - but sadly, it hasn't made driving any safer - we just have more morons on the road that feel invincible behind the wheel. |
| Martin ZT |
| Mega, I love you too. Martin, I know that bit of the A1M at Peterborough very well. It's a brand new EIGHT lane dual carriageway with hefty central barriers and nothing close to the hard shoulder. Recently a police helicopter pilot (from our force) got done there for 129 mph in his car and was let off because he needed his car to get to work. Another bobby was caught around the 130 mark somewhere else and got off because he was "testing" his car to see if would be suitable as a police car. We are talking serious hypocracy here. The reason I won't speed above 90 on this A1M at Peterborough because the local bill play with unmarked cars and catch speeding drivers for sport. I recently rode my big motorbike with some other riders and one had just been on a civilian training course run by police bikers. The advice they were given was this. "Obey the speed limits through the towns and villages. When clear of them, go as fast as your discretion allows. We are teaching you to rise your bike quickly and safely." He said that all on the course did as they were told and some reached 100 mph on clear bits of two way roads where the limit is 60mph. But they did it safely. I think that this attitude sums up the situation quite well unless someone can argue that it's NEVER safe to exceed any speed limit. I have no problem with Jeff doing 120 on that four lane stretch of the A1 if the conditions were safe but I would be seriously upset with him doing 35 in a 30 near a school at chucking out time with busses and cars parked all over the place. Hands up those who have never ever broken the speed limit! What, not even one hand! Roche |
| roche bentley |
| "Obey the speed limits through the towns and villages. When clear of them, go as fast as your discretion allows..." That is precisely the rule i use to drive and have always done so. Although i might add that often i drive below the speed limit in built up areas if i believe it appropriate to do so (school kicking out time is one of them - particularly when SRMs are about!). There is not anything dangerous and foolish about driving to the conditions - the speed you actually travelling at has no bearing on the fact that if conditions allow, speed could be limitless. I hope "someonewhossuffered" (but hasn't really as it/she wasn't directly affected) is really as concious of speed limits as it/she says, but more importantly realises that sometimes even driving at the speed limit is unsafe. ~PHIL |
| Phil |
| <Whilst Ted makes the point that speed limits were introduced as a fuel economy measure, wasn't this at a time that few cars managed the ton? When roads were generally less busy? When there were more drivers and fewer morons on the road? > True to an extent - however the roads were just as busy because we had a lot less of them, very few motorways or M standard highways, by-passes were being built but were few and far between. But many cars could manage well over the the 'ton' as could motorcycles and everything is relative - most cars then had drum brakes, no seat belts or built in crumple zones or passenger protection devices and pedestrian protection was nil. There were a lot less 'young' drivers in those days, because they could not afford a car, so perhaps that made the roads a little safer. And as a BTW we did have speed limits just not blanket limits. |
| Ted Newman |
| Doing a ton in the 60s was a terrifying experience. I managed it on a BSA 650 and in a Ford Consul flat out on a down hill stretch of new motorway before we had armcos and cros over accidents were common. It was very dangerous. The Suzuki Hayabusa will achieve 198mph on the open road. You could offer me a million pounds, I would not even think about trying to achieve it. Safety Fast! was a great logo and still is. Roche |
| roche bentley |
| Roche you surprise me! I had a Triumph T110 and used to regularly take it over the ton - and that was in the 50s - and whilst it got the adrenalin pumping it never ever terrified me not even scare me a little. And in the early 60s I used to get to drive an E Type Jag which easily went well over the ton without scaring me - mind you it's lack of stopping power could give some cause to be concerned! |
| Ted Newman |
| Yes Ted, in hindsight we were both idiotic and foolhardy. Look at that little Triumph now, would you do it again? I also had a 65 E type 4.2. It would pass anything on the road except a petrol station. That had poor brakes too. I've still got a BSA 650, just like the one I had then. Top sensible speed, maybe 80? Looney speed? who knows? |
| roche bentley |
| Roche Hindsight is a wonderful thing as is youth! I now have the former and would love to have the latter again. And as to would I do it again? Probably given the right circumstances BUT at the moment I am 'bikeless' though I do keep looking in the window of our local Triumph dealer at the T100! |
| Ted Newman |
| Sorry Jeff on two counts, obviously one of which is your demise. The second however is that I missed your original post, I was on my way to Cognac France in my MGA for a 2 week break so obviously did not get your message about our venue. I believe they changed it to the pub at Scotton and will be there again this month. Get the trouble and strife to run you over, not literally of course, and hopefully we will console you then. |
| Bob (robert) |
| Bob What Scotton is that? I was evacuated to a farm in Yorkshire during WW2 and the nearest village was called Scotton! Ted |
| Ted Newman |
| Ted this one is in north Lincolnshire near Gainsborough. |
| Bob (robert) |
| Just remembered there was also a Scotton near my last RAF base at Hemswell! |
| Ted Newman |
| Crossed in the mail - thats the one - I was based at Hemswell for 18 months. |
| Ted Newman |
| Yes that is the one Ted, small world isn't it. Obviously you will know the tradition we have in Lincolnshire and the RAF. We are very proud of it and many sites are now wonderful museums. A very good friend of ours and the car club own east Kirkby which is now a monument to the Lancaser bomber. They have a working Lancaster that most Saturdays comes out and taxis at full power around the site. Ted it brings the hairs on the back of your neck up and tears to your eyes. God bless you and all those few that we the many owe so very much! |
| Bob (robert) |
| Bob The fighting was well and truly over before I did my stint - in fact by the time I got to Hemswell it didn't even have any aircraft - other than Yankee transports delivering parts for the building of Thor ICBM site. But there were V Bombers just down the road at Scampton. And Lincolnshire was still awash with old disused war time airfields. And we had a couple of Ansons at one of our satellite airfields - Ludford Magna I think it was called. I drove by Hemswell a few years back and I see it is now an Antiques Centre! |
| Ted Newman |
| Almost forgot the other camp with V Bombers that I spent some time at was Gaydon - drove LandRovers around what was to become the MGF test track! Might go back next month:-) |
| Ted Newman |
| Ted sed: >If you have genuinely lost a friend in a road accident then you have my sympathy as I too lost a friend in a road accident, albeit 50 years ago, but every loss of life is a tragic loss for someone.< 50!!! years ago? what was friend doing - carrying the red flag or run over by a horse and cart? |
| R.I.P. UK |
| Hi Bob Been on hols myself. Wont be at meet. Being driven to Penrith by wife the morning after, she drives a little slower that me, so will have to get up earlier. See you on 1st though if your going. |
| Jeff Patterson |
| Ah bless you RIP - but remember your history - the internal combustion engined vehicle was invented in the 19th century and we are now in the 21st century BUT If you must know he was killed whilst riding his BSA 350 cc single motorcycle, he was travelling at about 65 mph along the old A11 Epping High Road when a dear leapt out of the forest and collided with him - they both died at the scene - I was a few yards in front and when I returned to the accident I can assure you the sight was not something to make fun about. |
| Ted Newman |
| still haven't the sense to apologise for your stupidity then jeff selfish prat |
| someoneswhossuffered |
| Why should I apologise? Its my own fault, so should I say sorry to myself then? Your just another non-member idiot who doesn't have a name. |
| Jeff Patterson |
| TN said: I never understand why it is illegal and 'bloody stupid' (to some) in this country whilst speeds far in excess of that are normal and legal in Germany! Simple. This is NOT Germany. In Saudi A. they cut off your hands for stealing - gonna use that argument? I drive fast, cos I like to drive fast (where it's appropriate to do so). However, to drive 50 mph above a speed limit and get caught, then you deserve everything that is thrown at you, especially when you treat it all with contempt. That sort never learn, but they do eventually... unfortunately and usually at the cost of some poor innocent bugger. |
| Mega |
| It was a one off and I got caught, big deal. I didn't steal anything, crash or kill anyone so that arguement is irrelevant. I got banned and will serve it. Its my own fault and I admitted it, but it was a good laugh at the time. Will it be worth it in the end, who knows. I have a driver so no harm done. Anyway it livened up the Z register for a while. Can't talk about mundane thing all the time can ya. |
| Jeff Patterson |
| Mega Both Germany and the UK belong to the EU and share general laws and beliefs have a similar land mass and population and therefore similar driving conditions. Saudi is totally different to us in many, many way! So if you want to make stupid comparisons then go back to the kindergarten where you belong. Also you say <I drive fast, cos I like to drive fast (where it's appropriate to do so> - so tell us what gives you this special right BUT everybody else that drives fast is a 'sort that never learns' |
| Ted Newman |
This thread was discussed between 12/08/2005 and 15/09/2005
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