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MG MGA - MGA 1600 side curtains

I'm looking for a used set of MGA 1600 side curtains that I can recover myself. I have the material to complete the job but need the frames. They can be worn out, I will restore them.

Joe Wiley
jwiley0541@aol.com
Joe Wiley

Joe
Did you try posting on the "other" MGA web site, in the want ads?
Edward
Edward Wesson 52TD

No, not yet Edward, I was waiting for you to call me and say "Hey Joe, I've got some, come over and get them" ;-) I put the word out at the show Friday night too.

Joe
Joe Wiley

On this subject, just getting around to inspect mine and I'm not happy. the windows are yellow and scratched and not up to visibility standards, plus some of the fabric is coming loose.
Is there a procedure for renovation? I presume the windows are flexible enough to pop out and replace with new plastic - any recommendations for which plastic to use?
And then maybe strip the fabric and glue on new?
Or is it necessary to de-rivet the frame?
Art Pearse

Art,

A bit over a year ago I traded a bare metal side curtain frame to Todd Clarke (Clarke Spares and Restorations)for some other parts. It was the 1600 style, sliding window with vinyl covering. He was planning to use the frame as a pattern for a restoration kit. So you might check to see if he ever got around to actually producing the kit.

But if I recall you have an earlier car so you might be referring to the flip-up style. Still might be worth checking with Todd to see what he has.

John
jbackman

I am not sure what a set of 1600 side curtains look like. I have about 6 different sets.
GK George

John, mine is the later type, with just a narrow vinyl lip covering the door's edge.
I think it is going to be fairly easy to replace the clear plastic windows, but its the re-covering that has me stumped. some of the vinyl is under the rivets.
Does a painted bare frame look so bad?
I also have two different collars for the rear peg, that go in the door top rail. One is a bigger bore than the other, I need another with smaller bore. Anyone got spares to trade?
Art Pearse

I've at last completed a 10 year restoration on my car, all, that is, except for one remaining item and that is recovering the fabric covered s/s frames.

I have had a go at recovering them, in fact I've had three attempts but none to my liking.

I bought the set of frames on Ebay with some vinyl still present but not really enough to use as patterns so I bought a set of fabric pattern drawings from Todd Clarke. Unfortunately, whereas these patterns give the shape of the seven pieces of vinyl (per frame) they neither give the position of the stitches nor the order of assembling them. Both these are vital for a neat end result.

From my old bits of original vinyl it appears that the fabric was not glued to the frame but the free ends were tucked into the channels and held in place by the close fitting window channelling. The steel frame itself is not rivetted but welded at the bottom and top front corners. The brackets, which were painted the same colour as the hood frame, are all pop rivetted to the frame after covering. The anti blowout bracket was covered with a rubber sleeve to protect the chrome on the windscreen.

The front windows are fixed and the rear edge fits into the diagonal steel strengthening brace. The window material is quite thin, Todd Clarke sells 1/32" but I measured some of the original at closer to 1 mm. The original plastic was not UV resistant and hence they yellowed over time. I have bought 1mm polycarbonate which has a UV absorbing layer on one surface so you have to mount them with this layer to the outside. As it is impossible to prevent some light entering from the back I'm guessing that eventually this material will darken also but perhaps take longer. It is possible to get completely UV resistant polycarbonate (Makrolon is one brand) but I was not able to find a supplier of 1mm sheet.
The rear windows are 1/8" perspex (acrylic)) and I've bought 3mm sheet for these.

There is a drainage hole in the bottom right of the frame and an eyelet is pushed through this hole again after covering.

There was a 1/2" rubber moulding glued to the front (before covering) of the frame to fill in the gap between the frame/windscreen.

There were originally edge flaps built into the fabric covering; to the top and rear this flap was 1/4" wide whereas at the bottom the flap was just over 1" wide. Presumably this wide flap had a tendency to curl in service so they built in a waterproof strengthening layer - as buckram is built into some clothing hems. One interesting and complicating feature of these flaps is that the wide bottom flap is positioned towards the outside of the car and the top flap is towards the inside so there is a crossover point for the flap. This crossover point on my old ones was half way down the rear edge but I have seen some other original frames where this point was at the top rear corner and these did not appear so neat.

When I failed in my attempts at making these coverings I thought I'd give the job to an expert but after 'phoning several MG trimmers nobody said they offered the service. Last Sunday (at Tatton) I spoke to someone who had had their frames recovered at Bob West so this may be a possibilty if I fail on my fourth attempt.

But it's not a job not to be undertaken lightly, for me it has proved to be the most difficult job of all in my restoration..........................Mike
m.j. moore

Thanks for the "encouragement" Mike! I found some .093 thick Lexan polycarbonate at Home Depot, not sure if it is UV treated though. My panes are .065 front and .120 rear. Maybe the HD stuff will fit both. I can supply pics of mine if it will help.
Art Pearse

I would like the pictures. Never done that, but I need pictures to document the restoration process.
Barney Gaylord

Here is a picture of a left hand bare steel side screenframe with the half round rubber moulding glued along the front edge.
Note the drainage hole at the bottom right..................Mike

m.j. moore

And these are the painted brackets.

m.j. moore

Also the 1" x 1/2" x 3/8" trapezoidal acrylic window knobs. These are copies of original knobs that were fixed to a pair of aluminium Weathershield frames. I'm not sure, however, if Weathershield made the fabric covered frames.

Note the tapering with the smaller area glued to the window....................Mike

m.j. moore

Mike, did you refurbish those anti blow out brackets? If so where did you get those rubber sleeves?

Richard
R A Evans

Mike

Bob West's trimmer, Les, did a great job on my side screens and he put the rivet in the right place.

My painted screen pins were like that to begin with. Its annoying that the paint comes off after a few goes of putting the screens in and out.

Richard, the blow out brackets can be obtained from Tod Clarke in the US and he aslo has the rubber sleeves. I bought several as the rubber gets trapped ocassionally with not so careful users and splits the rubber. I think the new rubber is not quite as tough as the orginal.

http://www.clarkespares.com/


Now what I really want is someone who can make the correct bumper grommets, there were 3 different designs, and the rubber sleeve for the battery cover....
John Francis

Richard,
Yes, the AB brackets from Todd Clarke are identical to the originals and his rubber sleeves, which are only a couple of quid a pair fit perfectly.


To make my car weatherproof I refurbished a pair of Weathershield frames trying to make them look close to fabric covered ones
I painted the aluminium the same colour as my hood (navy) and the brackets are tan. They don't look too bad (see pic.) but I'd still like a functional fabric covered set.

John, I think the correct bumper rubber grommets are on Ebay now (see item 231007787009).
The price per set, £13, is not too bad but I asked the seller some time ago what the postage cost would be to the UK and he gave me a hefty figure so I didn't get them.

I have also been looking for the battery cover clip sleeve. Apparently TC has been thinking of having them manufactured and he said he has been able to get hold of a good original to copy but a year has gone by and there is still no sign of them. He did say that someone from New England was also thinking of reproducing them and maybe this is why he's delaying...........................Mike


m.j. moore

Mike, the rivets on your refurbs go right through the frame?
Art Pearse

Art, Sorry I must have been asleep still and posted the reply on the wrong thread! Here we go:---

Art,

The pop rivets only go through one side of the frame. I got a set for two frames from TC and there are four for the AB brackets (5/32 x 5/16 x 1/4" long) and twenty for the others (5/32 x 5/16 x 1/2" long). They look like nickel plated steel rivets and not the common aluminium which may not be strong enough................Mike
m.j. moore

What was your question , Joe? (LOL!)
Edward
Edward Wesson 52TD

Edward

My question was (where can I purchase a "very" used set of 1600 side curtains?). Also, I checked with the Moss catalog and the fabric (Stayfast) side curtains do have sliding windows and they cost $1395.00. I'm going to call the guy in Cleveland Monday.

Joe
Joe Wiley

Joe I have a set of bare curtain frames that I would sell you at whatever you think they are worth. I will be heading down to Florida via Georgia in late Dec if you are interested. mgbill@sympatico.ca I can take a pic of them if you like Bill
Bill Mason

I've studied mine and it looks like the covers are first stitched as a complete thing that surrounds the frame and is then secured by tucking the edges into the frame secured by friction with the U-shaped channel for the panes. very tricky operation I'd say.
Also, the frint pane is secured on all 4 sides by a frame. How is it possible to popit out for replacement?
Art Pearse

Mike, I see from your picture that the front pane does not have a metal brace on the rear edge. Mine does (at least on one of them, remains on the other. It looks like a folded pice of about 22g steel, 3/8 wide which the pane slots into for rigidity, and it is brazed to the main frame, thus trapping the pane. Maybe (hopefully!) it is unnecessary.
Still working on the stitching pics for you and Barney.
Art Pearse

Art, I think you're mixing up the picture of the Weathershield frames I did up with the bare 'fabric covered' frame which is in the first picture I posted. These FC frames I got came without the diagonal brace but there was evidence of where they had been welded. Like you I made up a couple and fixed them on.
I think the reason they welded the braces on was to retain the very thin front pane which was only around 1/32". The reason why the front was so thin is probably because there is not so much room in the single frame channel. (In contrast the aluminium Weathershield frames have a double channel).

The thin plastic front pane was put between the frame and the channel runner so as not to interfere with the movement of the 1/8" rear window in the runner. I think the thin front pane will be so flexible that there should be no difficulty in inserting it into the frame. I'm more worried about getting in the much thicker rear pane especially as the flexibility of the frame is reduced by the presence of the diagonal brace.

But I hasten to add that I haven't done mine yet, only the Weathershield look alikes..........................................Mike
m.j. moore

Ok, this explains why I have two sizes of rear socket for the door. My frame takes the smaller pin. Unfortunately I have only one of them!
My front panes are 1/16. I can get Lexan sheet at Home Despot in .093 thk, so maybe a bit more free than the 1/8.
Then again, I think I have to source some more runner material from a local trimmer.
I have not yet made up the rear brace for the front panes, or sourced any 1/16 Perspex / Lexan.
Art Pearse

Mike, I think I am going to make the front pane from the .093" Lexan, and I will mill the 3 outer edges down to 1/32", so it slots in between the frame and runner without constricting the rear pane passage. Then the rear edge does not need stiffening.
I also think you can safely remove about 1/16" from the top edge of the sliding pane, which would allow it to be flexed in a bit easier.
Art Pearse

Art. -- Take some pictures, and let us know how that turns out. You my end up with the sliding panel rubbing and scratching the fixed panel. I get that some on my aftermarket side curtains, even when there is initially a substantial gap between the panels.
Barney Gaylord

Ok, I'll make the milling on the outside edge. That should leave a gap the width of the edge of the runner.
Art Pearse

Art
Lexan is wonderful stuff, but it will scratch more easily than Plexiglass...
The good thing about Lexan, is it is almost unbreakable, and will bend almost 180 degrees, without breaking, so it will be easy to insert in the slots.
Edward
Edward Wesson 60MGA

Here is a sketch of the stitching pattern for the cover, plus a couple of dimensions.
Mike this is what you needed to help you sew up your pieces?
I would think it would be much easier to glue the cover to the sides and bottom of the screen frame before tucking in the edges. The tuck-ins could also be made long enough to go under the runner. I cant see doing it w/o the help of some glue!


Art Pearse

Art,
Yes this was basically the same sketch I did from the bits left on my frames except my flap widths were a bit less than yours.
The problems start when you begin the sewing and, for me, there were several of these.
First is the machine you use and you have to use a machine because hand sewing four or more thicknesses of vinyl is virtually impossible unless you use a hand awl and are prepared to spend an age on sewing.
I have an industrial machine which was powerful enough but it went so fast that there was no control so I had to use it hand operated.

The next problem was that the machine had a standard presser foot and there was high friction between this and the vinyl surface causing the movement of the top layer to lag behind the bottom thereby causing creases.
I found that people normally sewing vinyl use a walking foot which I couldn't adapt on my machine. Instead next best was a roller foot which I bought and this worked reasonably well for the tonneau and sidescreen bags I made up.

However, and for example, when sewing the top two frame pieces I found there was still a bit of lag and when you have already cut the pieces to the exact length I found that they were out at the end of the stitch run with some unsightly creases.

This was when I had another close look at the original factory stitching and found that the top seam was made up of three stitch runs and not two as I had thought and which you have in your sketch. I think the first run at the top was made with the two layers of vinyl placed front side facing each other and a stitch run made about 1/8" from the edge. Doing it this way should reduce the foot friction because the back side of the vinyl is not as 'tacky' as the front. Then the two layers were folded back and a second run made close to the edge. The third run was made about 1/4" from the second to give the top flap. So when I have my next try I will try and do it this way.

But yet another difficulty is when sewing the four made up pieces together at the corners and it seemed to me that they have to be sewn from the inside of the material and at the correct angle! It must be possible but so far I haven't resolved how to do this.

Most definitely not an easy job.................Mike
m.j. moore

Mike, to avoid the creep you mention, I used small staples to hold the layers of leather together (seats), pulling them out just before going through the sewing foot. Also, loosen the foot pressure a bit, so you can have a bit of hand control, stretching the material fore and aft of the needle.
Art Pearse

This thread was discussed between 03/08/2013 and 01/09/2013

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