MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGA - Oil on the splines -- Dry or lubed???

Checking on rear brake linings today and found oil on the splines and spokes. 12 months ago I replaced the oil seal on that side and cleaned everything in sight. So I am surprised to find oil.

Where has it come from? The brake lining and drum are clean so it has not by-passed the oil seal.

Next question, and it has been debated before -- Should the splines be dry or lubricated?

My theory is DRY, as they are less likely to move. If they are lubricated, are they are more likely to slip back and forward and wear out the splines?

Barry
BM Gannon

Hi Barry. Personally, I used to coat the wire wheel hub splines on my Healey 3000 with silver anti seize compound. You can run the splines dry, but if the wheels seize onto the splines they can be hell to get off. I would recommend lubrication of some kind. Solver anti seize compond doesnt show as much as grease, of it gets flung onto the wheels. Hope this helps, Glenn
Glenn Hedrich

Barry-
Are you talking about gear oil? Only place it can come from is inside the axle, which means it's leaking out the splines where the actual half shaft is pressed into the extension hub for the wheel. There is supposed to be a "welch" plug pressed in the hub covering the end of the halfshaft. It has either come adrift or is missing, and also, the rear axle vent could be blocked.
All distinct from the hub splines the wheel fits on, which should definitely be greased or antiseized as Glenn, the book, and I say. Dry splines wear, fret, and seize, not any of which is good.

FRM
FR Millmore

Barry,

I assume that you have a Workshop Manual but I have attached an image anyway, showing the vent (item 11) and the welch plug (item 45) that FRM describes.
The wire wheel splines should be lubricated as stated.


Mick

M F Anderson

The splines must definitely be lubricated! I have seen some very rusty wheel centres/hubs on neglected and/or imported cars! In an effort to try to overcome the "clunking" (especially the rear wheels--now a common problem with MGA's and MGB's) without buying new wheels and splined hubs I have used Loctite on the bevelled section of both the hub and wheel (not on the splines!) and also the inside of the centre-lock nut and corresponding outer edge of the wheel centre, with mixed results. On occasions I have had to get under the car (eg pit or hoist) and belt the inside of the tyre with a rubber mallet to loosen the wheel and at other times (mostly!) it does not seem to have worked at all!
Barry Bahnisch

Glenn, "they can be hell to get off".
I have driven this car daily for 38 years and I have never had a problem with the wheels siezing onto the splines. How could this happen - they flop around very loose when the spinner is undone. Maybe mine are badly worn? Would the anti sieze take up the slack?

FRM and Mick, I checked the plug before I reassembled it - it looked to be tight but I suspect the oil may have leaked from there. I will check again once I get some miles up. I will also check the vent tomorrow, it may be clogged - thanks for the tip. I could check it now but my garage is full of spiders!!!!! I'll wait for daylight.

FRM You say --- "greased or antiseized as Glenn, the book, and I say". May I respectfully ask - Which book?

Barry



BM Gannon

Barry B, Your post came in while I was composing my response - thanks for your comments.

When you say --- "belt the inside of the tyre with a rubber mallet" --- Is that necessary to break the seal of the Locktite or is something else holding it? From your comments I'm not sure if you advocate using anti-sieze or not.

Further, when you say -- "must definitely be lubricated" -- Do you consider anti-seize to be lubrication?

Barry
BM Gannon

Anti seize is a lubricant. It is silver in color. Regular grease has a greater tendancy to "run" as it is thinner. Anti sieze runs less and blends in better when it does.
R J Brown

Now I'm scared to go to OZ!
Barry - any shop manual or owner's manual, for any car with knock-off wheels, or any wheel manufacturer's instructions will do.

"Before replacing a wheel wipe all serrations, threads, and cones of the wheel and hub and then lightly coat them with grease. If a forced change is made on the road, remove, clean, and grease as soon as convenient. Once a year remove the wheels for examination and regreasing." MGB owner's manual.

" they flop around very loose when the spinner is undone. Maybe mine are badly worn? "
Yep, and one day they will flop right off the car as you are driving. Sounds like that may be very soon. Any number of people on this board can tell you that story.

It is more common, on neglected cars, that the wheels seize on the hubs, sometimes to the point where it takes a torch to get it off. If you get them off without destroying them, then the splines will be sloppy from the corrosion.

"Would the anti seize take up the slack?"
For a very short time. Anti seize is to prevent the wear and corrosion that cause the loose and worn out parts in the first place.

FRM
FR Millmore

I use ordinary grease on the splines. The "belting with a rubber mallet" was due to the Loctite gripping the wheel (at the bevelled faces, etc) making it difficult to get off! Am I an advocate for using Loctite? I dare say not really, as I have said it only seems to work on occasions so (being an old bloke) I have given up. I used to prepare the faces very carefully, eg cleaning paint off, shiny clean steel etc and was careful in the use of the Loctite because any surplus runs down onto the wheel rim and, if left, damages the paint! Perhaps it is worth a try, I proved that it can work, but I get frustrated when there is no guarantee that things like this are successful!
Barry Bahnisch

Barry,
I have had a recurring oil leak on right rear seal for sometime - replaced it a couple of times but with a bit of spirited driving I still get a leak (new bearing and speedi-sleeve coming up!). The leak does not get to the brake linings as the oil comes out the witness hole on the back plate then runs down the outside of the back plate onto the inner rim (and down the inner tyre wall when parked). If the witness hole is blocked, oil will go to the brake shoe area - have you checked the back of the back plate around the witness hole for oil? Funny thing I did the the left rear side once and never had another problem!

On the splines, I use a smidgen (Aussie work for not much) of Devcon hi-temp anti-sieze - wipe off excess with a tissue - this stuff sticks like "s%#t to a blanket"!
Regards
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

Barry,

Attached is a page from the MGB Workshop Manual (see item 9).


Mick

M F Anderson

Speedi-sleeves are excellent, I remember using them with great success with our Y-type. The other thing I do is smear silicone sealant on the spoke ends in both the inner and outer lacing (on wire-wheeled cars such as MGA's) to avoid the spline grease creeping along the outside of the spokes and looking unsightly.
Barry Bahnisch

So the shop manual lube instructions include R&R the wire wheels every 3 months. Fat chance.
Barney Gaylord

Barney-
You don't think it's gonna happen?
You'll see that the OM says once a year, a bit more forgiving.
Actually we had customers, especially Brits, who would bring their cars in "because the book says so". Took some doing to convince them that the then required twice annual state inspection was more than sufficient.
Also, you might recall that tire failures were a lot more common, and at least where I was, wheels fell apart regularly!

FRM
FR Millmore

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. It looks like anti-sieze is the answer. I checked the vent today and it was clear.

Mike E, The oil must have come through the end cap (Item 45 in the h/book sketch - thanks Mick) - it had not soiled the linings or drum.

It is all assembled again - so now to road test!

FRM, your comment re tyres - I have not carried a spare, or needed one, for 20 years - tyres are better, so are our roads!

Barry
BM Gannon

This thread was discussed between 07/11/2009 and 09/11/2009

MG MGA index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG MGA BBS now