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MG MGA - rear axle hub leak

I have had a perennial leak from the driver side rear axle hub and I have done the repair two times on it. I replaced the oil seal, the O-ring, and the paper gasket and still have a leak there. What am I missing or doing wrong that I can change to stop this leak?

Steve
Stephen Lofaro

The axle is eating the oil seal - you need to install a Speedisleeve. As usual there is a great description and all details on Barney's site.

http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/rearaxle/ra101.htm

The process is the same for wire wheels and steel wheels.
dominic clancy

And make sure the hub nut is vf tight!! At least 120 ft lbs!

CP

Colin Parkinson

This repair is going to the shop...

Steve
Stephen Lofaro

Mine went to the shop, Oselli, first and they fitted the oil seal the wrong way round so it leaked even more.

The speedisleeve is easy to fit yourself. The hardest bit is tightening the hub nut properly.
John Francis


Steve, it is not difficult to install a Speedi Sleeve.
Art Pearse

When i fitted the sleeve i found that i was able to use an old aerosole can that i had cut down as a drift this worked very well and the job was a total success
c daly

All the Speedi-Sleeves that I have used, came with the "tool" for installation...It is nothing more than a cylinder, with a bottom on one end, used to tap the sleeve into position....Any cylinder that catches the flange will work, as long as it has a bottom to tap on.
Here's one going on the "B" crank...tool is readily visible.
Edward

Edward Wesson 52TD

The problem with the tool for the rear axle speedisleeve is that it is much too short and you need an extension with the correct ID for the sleeve flange. I have a section of 3/4 inch wall aluminium tube for the rear axle jobs which worked just fine.
dominic clancy

I use a piston ring compressor squeezed down to small diameter. Works like a charm (if you have one). I gently tap the back end with the side of a two pound hammer.

Barney Gaylord

I use a piston ring compressor squeezed down to small diameter. Works like a charm (if you have one).

Barney Gaylord

I recollect using a length of ABS pipe, orget which size.
Art Pearse

Gentleman,

Please see my comment below about the wheel bearing.

Your encouragement has no bounds. (Nor do my boundaries, I suppose!). I have procured the relevant tool for removing the hub lock nut from a club member in the Southern California MG Car Club, Jeff Becker, on loan. Bless his heart. I am inspired to attempt this repair and I have also received the Speedi Sleeve from Moss Motors. Today, I was successful removing the hub nut in reverse fashion and tomorrow I shall proceed with this oil seal repair, following all your good advice. Should the need arise to beg for additional help, I now know where to go. HERE!

P.S. My friend Jeff has suggested I replace the wheel bearing along with this repair. Is that recommended? Is there a way to inspect for this need to replace it? Or should I just get the part and replace?

Thank you all.


Steve Lofaro
Simi Valley, CA
Stephen Lofaro

The rear wheel bearings commonly last forever. My original ones now have 400,000 miles and still doing well. If you want to check it's integrity, see here: http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/universal/ut107.htm
Barney Gaylord

Make sure that your o-ring is the right size. As I recall, there are some in circulation that are not the correct thickness/diameter/length (I forget which).

Be patient and do everything as if it is the last time you will ever do it (or want to) - and it likely then will be.

JIM in NH
AJ Mail

I've just been through this on a disc wheel car. Barney's site gives all the info needed for a successful job. My one problem was not having the means to press in the new bearing (I figured this was cheap insurance to buy a new one even though I agree with Barney that these probably are the same as Mack Truck rear bearings!). My issue arose as the axle shop I went to to press in the bearing got things a bit "cockeyed" and the result was the bottom
flange of the hub began to squash upward on one side. They were able to straighten it and hopefully all will be well as I believe hubs are not that easy to come by. Next time I would go to a shop familiar with our cars. It is also tough to get the hub nut torqued to 140 ft lb+ because the socket wants to slip off the thin nut when a lot of force is applied because the force from the torque wrench is not balanced. A tommy bar would be better I think and I've ordered one in case I need to do the other side.
Tom Heath

AJ Mail has hit the AJ nail on the head. I have a spare O-ring and I am going to inspect it against the installed one. For some reason or another the driver side O-ring is not sealing with any compression. So, I am wondering if this means I am not properly torquing the half shaft or if, indeed, the O-ring is not the proper thickness. How much torque should be applied to the axle shaft nuts? This seems rather important to the issue. I don't know for sure.

After inspecting the shafts and the oil seals, my opinion is I don't need the Speedi-sleeve or a new oil seal. This problem looks like the O-ring. Or perhaps the 'venerable' paper gasket? LOL.

By the way, Tom Heath says it is difficult to apply 140 lbs. of torque to the lock nut. I have a torque wrench that only goes to 95...but with a tommy bar how would ever know the torque? I am using a leveraged handle...I will put some good torque on. And then just see what the result is. Presumably this seals the oil seal at the rear side of the hub to the axle shaft. This is not a difficult repair, but it is a difficult problem.

Steve
Stephen Lofaro

Steve, the nut torque has nothing to do with the oil seal or the gasket seal. It just holds the inner race to the axle case shoulder. Some are of the opinion that you need the massive clamping force afforded by 140 ft lbs to stop the race from moving radially on the casing and processing around. My humble opinion is that you just need to stop it falling off.

Art Pearse

Art, I have to ask you then, what does have to do with the oil seal and the gasket seal preventing leaks? There is no spacer bearing on the wire wheel versions. Where else does the compression come from if not the lock nut?
Stephen Lofaro

Steve,
I admit that with a tommy bar you don't know the torque. I was able to get mine up to over 100 ft-lbs with a torque wrench but then the socket would slip off because the force is not applied evenly on that thin nut. I am using the Ford 4X4 hub socket because that is what is available locally. With a tommy bar I would torque to 100+ ft lbs. with a torque wrench and then use the bar to follow Barney's advice which is to apply as much more force as you can. The threads will take it. I think the problem some of us experience is that with a loose hub nut the bearing can wobble and the oil seal fails as a result.
Tom Heath

Tom, the inner race is a slide fit over the axle. There is not enough clearance to cause any motion that the flex seal can't handle, even with a finger tight nut.
Steve, the w/w hub has a projection which clamps the outer race to the bearing holder, sometimes called the hub. The gasket thickness is important as it is part of the clamping design.
I was just listing the items which don't affect the sealing. You are probably on the right track with the O ring inspection, if you are sure the seal area is truly smooth. If in doubt you could polish it with crocus cloth. Over time the seal can cut a groove in the metal.
Also check the gasket faces for warp or damage.
Art Pearse

A great tool for installing a Speedi Sleeve, is the actual wrench used to remove the hub nut. Its diameter is large enough and it has enough depth to make the job very easy. I just did one. Now what about the little screw that holds the axle flange to the hub. On disc wheels, they use three (3) screws but on WW they only use one. It seems to me that this is the weak point for the joint seal. If the axle and hub are not tightly compressed togeather the gasket and O ring will not funtion properly. On my car (WW)the little screw seems to constanly break. I am toying with the idea of splitting two (2) lug nuts in half and using them to clamp the axle and hub togeather. After that I will see how well the brake drum sits over top of that. Also a secong thought would be to replace the screw with a STUD. There would be no interfernece problem and a solid amount of pressure could be applied to the joint.

Speaking of pressure, what is the proper torque for the lug bolts that hold the brake drum on. I am sure if they get cranked down too hard, the drum could distort or break. And does the tightness of the bolts on the brake drum...influence the tightness of the seal at the axle/ hub (between the O ring and paper gasket).

Stephen, I hope these points will help you stop your leak.
Gordon Harrison

Gord, I think the ingle screw is only to keep it together b4 the drum is installed. The drum nuts clamp up the hub joint.
Art Pearse

Art, Do you have any idea how tight (torque) the lug bolts should be. My impression is QUITE TIGHt as this will be the pressure that seals the joint. But not so tight that it cracks the brake drum.
Gordon Harrison

Gord, guess the same torque as you would use for attaching disc wheels, I suppose 65 ft lb or so.
Art Pearse

Art,
My comment about the need to get that octagonal nut very tight was based on info gleaned from Barney Gaylord's site under "more on axle nut torque". It makes sense to me since as you say the bearing inner race slides quite easily over the axle, so I was convinced that the need to pinch the inner race between the nut and axle shoulder is important to prevent undue wear. I guess time will tell, but I know my back wheel was a bit wobbly with the axle nut found to be finger tight.
Tom
Tom Heath

Tom, I understand the argument, it's just I'm a non-believer!
Art Pearse

Just out of interest, I got a small batch of special sockets made up to tighten the hub nut up properly to 140 ft lbs.

Unfortunately despite quite a bit of publicity not enough people could see the need for them.

So once the initial batch had gone, I did not get any more made!!!

No there are non left, sorry.

But believe me you do need them, particularly for a race car with all then extra stresses.

Colin
Colin Parkinson

This thread was discussed between 29/04/2013 and 22/05/2013

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