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MG MGA - Rear hub seal and nut!

After a couple of long runs I noticed the tell tale oil pools (2" diameter) on my garage floor from the weep hole on the brake back plate indicating a problem with a rear hub seal or seal land. I thought this would be an easy fix as I had just taken delivery of an OTC #7157 socket as mentioned on Barneys site http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/tools/hub_socket.htm but it didn't turn out that way!

When I previously fitted this nut (RH side) I added a couple of drops of Loctite 222 to make sure it would not come loose and tightened it using a friend's home made hex. socket and a new lock washer - Barney would have been proud of me as to how tight I got the nut! So before I tried to loosen the nut I used the hot spanner to kill the Loctite then set to it with my new OTC socket, 1/2" drive sliding tee and 3' of 3/4" water pipe for added purchase (you also need a 6" extension to get lever away from the guard). The new socket was useless - it just burred the drive dogs and slipped of the nut first try (see photo attached), no matter how many more times I tried I could not budge the nut. I called MMJ (my mate Jim) for a loan of his trusty spanner - we tried this and it failed to budge the nut. We then resorted to a chisel and BFH - voila!

After polishing the seal area, fitting a new seal and nut and tightening up with MMJ's socket (the new nut helped) and test driving to confirm I had the problem licked, I thought I would share my thoughts with you all on the OTC type socket for this job.

While the OTC socket is 1 61/64" between the drive dogs it is not meant for this job (made to fit in slots in Bronco hubs, etc). It is a fabricated part (the Ampro brand may be forged but the OTC is not) and the dogs don't appear to be hardened, and it is hard to keep aligned and exert the required torque. I would not recommend this tool for MGA rear hub nuts!

My plans with this socket are to build up the dogs with weld and grind back to the correct dimension then fit a concentric tube within the socket that will fit into the axle housing (~29 mm OD) and act as a guide similar to how the original Churchill tool worked (will need to be machined to size and welded to the socket). When I am finished I will post on the BSS for comment. I reckon this steady tube would be a handy addition to all the after market sockets also. Also there is no need to use thread lock on the nut if you get it tight enough and use a good lock washer.

Regards
Mike





Mike Ellsmore (1)

Mike, the OTC looks like an inappropriate tool for the job. How are the 4 square cut dogs supposed to bear on the edges of the octagon nut without biting into the corners?
I fabbed up my own spanner from 5/32 MS strip using hacksaw and files; 2 halves then welded together.
I won't re-open the debate on how tight. I just used Gutenteit.
A Pearse

I agree with Mike on the inadequacy of the Ampro socket. It will sort-of fit the nut but it slips off very easily when you try to turn the nut. The drive dogs are not hardened and easily damaged.

Jim
Jim Ferguson

Mike,
MOSS here in North America also sell a 1 61/64" box spanner supposedly for this job, but it is different to the one you have. I complained about the ineffectiveness of this about 6 months ago on this BBS.
The nut size is actually 1 15/16", and this is confirmed in the workshop manual, and by measuring a new nut. No-one can explain why the MOSS socket is 1/64" oversize, although one wag suggested it was to allow for the burrs on the nut put on by a previous owner. A bit like your nuts are now!
I actually removed the nuts using a 50mm socket (3/4" drive), but it did not work to tighten the nuts to required high torque.
Maybe Cecilia at Scarborough Faire needs to make a box spanner of the correct size?
Peter.
P. Tilbury

Gents,
Attached are photos showing the old nut in the socket. The photo on the left shows how worn/damaged the nut was (not giving the socket much of a chance to grip). The photo on the left shows the back side of the nut (how the nut is orientated when removing or replacing). It is advisable to use new nuts if there is any damage to the old ones.
I am confident if a central steady was incorporated into either of the socket designs (ie Moss or OTC type) they would work much better, even on old nuts, as the socket would be kept concentric with the nut/housing as torque is applied. Has anyone tried this modification?
Regards
Mike


Mike Ellsmore (1)

I used the Moss Motors socket with a 1/2" air impact wrench and the nuts came off both sides fairly easily. I also used the air impact wrench to put them on, guessing the torque.

Andy
Andy Preston

Mike,
I feel that a central steady would not improve the MOSS socket much. It has flats that are, in theory, fully in contact with all 8 sides of the nut. It is the size inaccuracy that causes it to slip and damage the nut.
Regards, Peter.
P. Tilbury


I'm glazing over reading these posts. Where do you guys find the time to fabricate tools?? It's hard enough for me to find time to buy tools at Sears.

I spent an hour with Glenn from Glenn's MG in St. Pete Florida last spring as I was getting ready to change my rear hub seal. When I asked him about the right tool he held up a pair of trusty channel lock pliers! Went back home and tried it....worked perfect the first time.
Jeff Bennett

Jeff,
You and you BF Glenn must have some arms on you to get the 100 plus ft lbs of torque required to tighten the rear hub nut with channel lock pliers!
Peter.
P. Tilbury

Like Andy, I recently used a Moss socket & air impact spanner to remove the rear bearing nuts on my wire wheeled coupe. No problems what-so-ever.
R Fisher

This thread was discussed between 06/01/2009 and 11/01/2009

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