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MG MGA - Sway bar

I finally got hold of an original (top mount) MGA sway bar, from Rogers Motors.
I now need the bushes and brackets to mount it to the frame extension. I see I can buy the bushes from Moss, but they don't list the bush brackets.
Does anyone have any, or a design so I could attempt a fab?
Also, they supplied MGB links. They seem to fit, but I am wondering about the length. Can someone who has the original set up measure the links, between centres?
Thanks.
Art Pearse

Just checked Barney's site.
Looks like I will have to lengthen the MGB links. (Cut them longer!)
Art Pearse

Those parts are available from Moss Europe; part AHH5935
Anti Roll Bar Bush Retainer. Expensive for what they are! The links are also available separately.

Not of much use to you, but it's a better deal if you buy the complete kit...
N McGurk

Art,
Try www.crateparts.com as they carry the bracketry for your swaybar. They are located in Michigan and associated with Eclectic Motorworks.
John
JR Alexander

Thanks John.
Art Pearse

I take it that the Moss anti-roll bar is mounted above the chassis like the original. Has anyone here used this kit? Does anyone know if it is possible to fit that style with the body on the car? If it can be done on a complete and running car,is the fit-up difficult to do? Is it a 3/4" bar or a smaller (like the original) size bar?
It's always nicer to fit things that look "factory". On the other hand we have a kit available here in Australia (for a similar price) that mounts from below, is easy to fit, and, I gather, works well. I wonder which is the better choice?
T Aczel

For me, the body is off, so no problem.
Are the bushes split, or how do they get on the bar?

Art Pearse

To install original type sway bar on a completely assembled car, it is necessary to remove the front bumper and front valance panel, disconnect electrical horn(s), and remove the front frame extension. That last piece almost dictates that you remove the grille for access to the front body mounting bolts. You might get in there by removing the radiator instead of the grille, but then you likely need two people to reach both ends of the body mount bolts at the same time.

If you have the right parts in hand, it is easy to attach the sway bar to top of the frame extension, after which reassembly is the reverse of disassembly.

If the car has 1500 type body, the front frame extension may need to be replaced or modified to have the sway bar mounting configuration on top. Also the lower A-arm front brackets and spring pans may need to be modified to accept the sway bar links.
Barney Gaylord

I fitted the Moss kit to my project recently. It seems to be an authentic reproduction of the original and comes with everything needed to fit to a 1600 without any drilling etc. I had the body off when I fitted it. I am very happy with it except for the fact that it is powder coated, which I really don't like.
N McGurk

Okay, I'll bite. Why do you not like powder coating on the sway bar?
Barney Gaylord

I think I went through this on here a while back.

I don't like powder coating as it is not suitable as a corrosion prevention in our damp (and salty roads) environment. It also cannot be overpainted and would need to be shot-blasted in order to apply a more resistant finish.

I will probably get blasted again by people who think powder coating is a great finish - and it can be, but only if applied under very strict (and expensive) controls. These parts are clearly not in that category. I used to work in Quality Assurance at the Leyland National plant, which had the largest powder coating facility in Europe so I know how good (and bad) it can be. Almost every part on the National was powder coated.

Powder coat is very tough and tends to remain in one piece while the steel underneath corrodes away. Like a spider shedding its' skin. I have seen horrible results on TVRs and even a Porsche (albeit only on a cage bracket for a GT3 clubsport)
N McGurk

"To install original type sway bar on a completely assembled car, it is necessary to remove the front bumper and front valance panel, disconnect electrical horn(s), and remove the front frame extension. That last piece almost dictates that you remove the grille for access to the front body mounting bolts. You might get in there by removing the radiator instead of the grille, but then you likely need two people to reach both ends of the body mount bolts at the same time."
Thanks for that Barney. Much as the idea of an original bar appeals, that much effort doesn't (for my non-concourse car). I doubt I'd lie down underneath the front of my car to look at that region too often, nor will others.
Neil, your first hand knowledge of powder coating in service is fascinating. Thank you for the insight.
T Aczel

If you buy the Moss kit, don't do like I did and leave it in the box for a couple of years before taking it out and looking at it. I found that the bar itself is tweaked and the ends are not aligned with each other, and enough time had passed that they would not do anything about it.



Del Rawlins

T Azcel...your reasoning is totally sound. I went through the same thought process a few years ago and bought the Oz underfit 3/4in bar. It came with templates for the drilling of a few holes,was made well and true, fitted easily in a few hours and transformed the car cornering .
Neil Ferguson

Del-
Just straighten it out.
Once you get it to the right shape, it will remain so, assuming it was heat-treated correctly. It will take a good deal of overbend to set it, or some well placed hammer blows with it on suitable blocking.
Is why I have big chunks of iron all over the place (and BIG hammers).
Surely there is still a blacksmith in AK?

FRM
FR Millmore

Heat treated spring steel, long torsion bar spring, designed to twist a lot and spring back to original shape. In theory you could twist it enough to pass the yield point and make it take a permanent set to lie in a flat plain at rest. Be forewarned, it will rake a lot of torque and a lot of twist angle to get past the yield point.

For ballpark numbers, if the tempered spring steel has a shear strength of 120,000 psi, twisting a 5/8-inch diameter bar to yield would require about 480 lb-ft torque. For a 3/4-inch bar it would be more like 830 lb-ft torque. So you need a thick wall steel pipe for a lever, maybe 4 to 8 feet long, and lots of room to swing it. There will be a lot of energy involved, so you best have the torsion bar anchored down really well before you start twisting.
Barney Gaylord

Del, from a purely practical point of view,I dont think it really matters that the anti roll-bar is slightly twisted, it should work perfectly well.

You would just have to adjust the length of one of the vertical link rods in order that the roll-bar can be fitted in its present slightly twisted shape.

If you fit it as it is now with equal length links, you will then have to twist the bar as you connect it and this would slightly pre-load the suspension.

In theory, this could mean that the roll bar may work really well when you corner in one direction but not so well (or maybe not work at all!) in the other direction.

The only downsides of fitting the twisted bar would be a small cut and re-weld of one of the links and a slightly different appearance of the links if you compared one side with the other.

Otherwise, take Barney's advice, clamp one end of the bar to something really immobile, take a very long piece of scaffolding tube and apply lots of effort to straighten it out.

Colyn
Colyn Firth

While Barney's theory is perfectly valid, in actual practice at least some AR bars are not very high spec - I've straightened several, on the idea that if they got bent I ought to be able to straighten them, and so it is. There is no reason for high tech stuff here, unless the bar dimensions are reduced to the point that the yield point is reached in service. Long arms on the bars reduce the twist angle such that yield is not reached - you can then use cheap steel and not even heat treat it, with a larger diameter to get the stiffness back. I have made bars like this, from random steel lying around the shop. For manufacturers, this can result in substantial cost reductions at a slight weight penalty. Remember that the torsional stiffness of all steels is essentially identical, regardless of yield strength.

FRM
FR Millmore

I was able to acquire a more or less original straight bar from a member here. It's about 1/16" thicker than the Moss bar and doesn't have the keepers welded on to prevent sideways motion, but I figure I can add a couple of split collars for the same purpose.

If I ever try to straighten the Moss bar, in all likelihood I will take it to a spring shop and see if they will do it. I'm currently nursing a finger injury inflicted by a defective gas strut that let go on me at work as I was trying to replace it, and am not feeling overly inclined to mess around with large amounts of stored mechanical energy at the moment.
Del Rawlins

i WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THE ORIGINAL BAR WAS 9/16"?
Reg Zotzman

MGA original sway bar, when equipped, was 5/8". It was okay with the period bias ply tires, much better than without the sway bar. The factory had a good handle on it, once they decided to go for good handling rather then cheap. For modern radial tires with better grip a 3/4" bar does much better.
Barney Gaylord

The original bar that I acquired from the member here is 5/8" thick. The one that came in the Moss kit is 9/16".
Del Rawlins

That sucks. They must be substituting the early MGB bar for the MGA.
Barney Gaylord

Reg, my sway bar which I believe is original, is 9/16".
Art Pearse

This thread was discussed between 05/10/2012 and 13/10/2012

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