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MG MGB Technical - E-clips

Needing to change yet another brake slave cylinder, I was pondering the E-clips. Some years ago I did make a tool which made fitting them pretty easy (http://www.mgb-stuff.org.uk/braketext.htm#eclip), but on the previous slave the nut wouldn't turn on the pipe, so I had to remove the bleed nipple and unscrew the slave from the pipe. Still couldn't free the nut, so I reversed the process, which meant I couldn't use my tool, and it was the usual cussing fiddle to fit.

I know some have resorted to circlips instead of E-clips, but one of the functions of the E-clip is to pull the slave to the back-plate with spring pressure. But it suddenly occurred to me that I might be able to use a pair of outside circlip pliers to fit the E-clip, and so it proved. Even though these are straight pliers so the U-bolts get in the way a bit (angled would have been even easier probably) by reaching round the back-plate with my hand, using thumb to press the slave against the back-plate, and a finger to angle the E-clip in the pliers so it was square to the slave boss, squeezing the handles to open out the E-clip just enough it slipped on as easy as anything. Once on the boss just finger pressure is needed to push each tab into the slot. Probably took me less time to do than write this.

Paul Hunt

That's clever. I've saved this for future reference.

Thanks Paul, again.

Regards
Roger
R Taylor

Paul, I might be wrong but the E clip looks to be on the wrong way round.

regards John
john wright

John, I agree, I usually fit the other way. It might just be a case of Artistic/photographic license!!
Allan Reeling

Thanks for your comment,the way the clip is in the photo it won't keep the "wheel cylinder" (proper technical term)in proper contact with the back plate.

regards John
john wright

Hmmm. To me the area between the tabs is against the back-plate before the tabs are located, when you push the tabs into the slot it pulls the cylinder against the back-plate.
Paul Hunt

A clearer picture of a part-fitted clip here. Already the slave is held quite firmly against the back-plate such that it doesn't move when I shake the plate about. Once the three tabs are pushed into the slot the bowed part will be pushed against the plate even harder which will pull the slave against the back-plate even tighter.

Paul Hunt

Paul

Might it not have been easier to replace the brake pipe?
Dave O'Neill 2

Paul, you have got it wrong, the clip goes on the other way round, then there is 3 contact points not 2. The way you have fitted it it just looks wrong.

Regards John

john wright

Dave - maybe from a finesse point of view, but not 'easier'.

John - we are just differently logiced, then, since I'm not aware of a definitive reference.
Paul Hunt

Paul, what are you talking about, if its wheel cylinders, then I am right, I have opened too many boxes containing "wheel cylinder". Slave cylinders are for clutches.
You still havent acknowledged your incorrectly fitted wheel cylinder retaining clip yet.

Regards John

john wright

Yes John, you are right it should have been referred to as a wheel cylinder and unfortunately Paul has fitted the e clip the wrong way round. We're it fitted the correct way the whole periphery of the clip would be pushed against the backplate with the tangs firmly pulling the groove. The way it is the tangs are against the backplate and the periphery of the clip up in the air. Ah well you can't win then all.
Iain MacKintosh

Hello Iain, thanks for the comments, its good to see that doing things correctly is important. We all know that once the rust has built up around the boss then the cylinder isn't going to move.

Regards John
john wright

Honestly, while I do encourage doing things correctly (especially when it's the same effort as doing things incorrectly), is it actually going to matter here?
The shoes will pull the cylinder against the backplate, as will the 2/3 effort of the e-clip. It's not going anywhere.
Much more worried about people who drill the backplates to fit GT cylinders on a tourer, or vice versa (or cylinders off another vehicle all together) because 'they look the same'.
Also, slave cylinder is an acceptable term for wheel cylinders if the context is pre-known. Might be confusing without any reference but of course you don't fit E-clips to clutch slaves on MGBs so it's obvious what he talking about. Plus there was a picture.
Roadwarrior

I agree with most of your points, my gripe is that the original poster put himself forward as the font of all knowledge that is MGB. If you are going to do this then you must make sure that you are getting it right. There are lots of fellow MG owner who come onto the site for help and information and it is very important that the right information is past on. Pauls website is very helpful but this point wrangles with me a someone who worked as a brake Technician for one of the UK's brake lining manufactures. So if I seem to be over cautious then better that than giving out incorrect information.

regards John
john wright



" put himself forward as the font of all knowledge that is MGB"


Somebody miss their tea-time today?

Charley
C R Huff

Those E-clips are an abomination. I've fitted them in the past with a lot of effort. Last time I did the job, I ran out of patience, dexterity, WHY and fitted an old piston circlip (engine variety). Yes, I know it's not correct and that the wheel slave cylinder can move slightly, but it seems to work, and maybe there's a miniscule self-centering action which might be useful.

In terms of fitment, it might have made some sense in the past where folk overhauled cylinders, rather than replaced, and needed to remove the cylinder intact, but the arrangement on my other old chariot of a couple of studs (that can obviously shear in extremis) seems a better arrangement.

Peter
P A Allen

Hi Charley,no I didn't missing tea time. Lol
john wright

"the original poster put himself forward as the font of all knowledge that is MGB"

Hello? I've never claimed to be anything more than 'still learning'. The original post referred to what seemed to me to be a far easier way of fitting these E-clips - which does incidentally work whichever way round you fit the clips, and was intended to be helpful not an instruction on how everyone should fit their clips.

I also never claimed that my way was 'right' and your way was 'wrong', merely that in the absence of any definitive information on orientation, going by their shape one way makes more sense to me logically than the other. Fitted your way round the clip doesn't need to be bowed. If it were flat with the tabs bent up until they were pressed down into the groove then the other way round *would* make more sense, and apply pressure from the whole of the surface of the clip.
Paul Hunt

Hello Paul, nice to hear from you.The correct way to fit the E clip is the bowed side away from the back plate. During my time working for Mintex Don as a senior brake technician I have come into contact with lots of New Lockheed brake assemblies and that's how the factory fitted them. Good trick with the circlip pliers though.Can we put this to bed now ☺
john wright

I can only add that on my B, redone about 12 years ago, the clips are positioned as per Paul's photo. That work done by a local and professional workshop which also was licenced to conduct registration checks (like UK Mots) here in the ACT. So reliable Oz practice at the time.

I also have a steel wheel axle in the garage which came from an ex USA car, from the accompanying gearbox, most likely from a post '74 car. Clips fitted as per mine. So, either factory practice at the time of production or NA practice in the life of the car over there.

My slave cylinders have not moved in that time nor, would it appear, have those on the NA car to the point where the axle was separated.

I would have thought a circlip in this application is more a positioning device rather than rigid securing one. If the factory was concerned about likely movement surely they would have bolted the cylinder through the backplate.

Regards
Roger
R Taylor

Roger, the E clip needs to go bowed side away from the back plate as it would make fitting easier on the production line. I agree that the clip is only there to stop the cylinder falling out, when some moisture has done its work and rusted the cylinder to the back plate then no more issues.
If you read my last post fully you will see what I did for 25 years.

Regards John
john wright

This thread was discussed between 21/04/2015 and 25/04/2015

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