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MG MGB Technical - Exhaust donuts - asbestos?

Hi all:

I am in the process of repairing an exhaust leak at the junction between the manifold and the 2-into-1 pipe. The donuts at the end of the 2-into-1 pipe appear very old - possibly the originals. They appear to have a skin of metal (missing in many places) with a fibre of somekind underneath. Does anybody know if this stuff could be asbestos? I'd like to avoid inhaling the stuff, but the only way to remove these donuts is to chip them away from the pipes. Did the factory use actual asbestos here, and if so, how can it be removed safely?

Thanks,

Erick
Erick Vesterback

Eric,

I have done the same job. On the assumption that these would be asbestos, I kept them well moistened (kerosene or petrol from memory) whilst chipping'drilling away in an endeavour to contain loose fibres. I also left the job soaking at times in an attempt to soften material which really was metal-hard.

That 'skin of metal' you mentioned is, from my experience, more likely heat glazed donut material.

Don't forget you must remove this material down to the metal of the 2 in one pipe you mentioned. That is shaped to receive the new donut within a lip. You will appreciate the dimensions if you look at the replacement. It should bed down to the centre 'shoulder'. Care neded not to destroy any of that lip metal on the pipe.

If you leave any of the old material in there you will struggle to get the exhaust lined up properly. Don't ask me how I know this!

Regards
Roger
Roger T

Erick,

The metal ring on the seal should have been fitted downwards with the fibre surface to mate with the manifold.

Try driving a thin chisel in between the pipe flange and the seal - you should be able to lever the seal upwards without the need to drill or chip!
Chris at Octarine Services

Chris,

Ah! So that might have been metal. That explains some of the initial frustrations. The replacement donuts I received had no evident metal ring. They seem to have sealed properly though. Should I have had a metal ring?

I think mine had been in from new. Chisel was one implement I did use but there was no prospect of levering the ring up. It was only when the bulk of material had been removed that there was any sign of remnants lifting.

Regards
Roger
Roger T

I have replacements that look like they are all metal from Payen - maybe they are fibre with a metal exterior, because they are very light. My biggest concern is if the material itself is asbestos - I want to avoid breathing it in, or having it in my garage. Sometimes my two young children play in my garage, and I don't want them in contact with airborne asbestos later on. Anyone know what the rings were made of?

Erick
Erick Vesterback

They were originally asbestos, haven't been for years. Wet with water, drive an awl into it and lever it out, put it in a plastic bag and bin it. If you are really worried, you can cover it all with a plastic bag and drive the awl through the bag into the gasket. While asbestos is not good to breathe, the situation is way overblown by the fearmongers. The problem arises when you get a lot of it over time. DO NOT grind or sand it, and do not blow brake dust and such around with an air hose. Always keep it wet with water or oil if you have to work with it and clean up afterwards. Petrol? Now you have a fire hazard which is far worse and WILL distribute the asbestos fibres all over the county!
In California, land of all worrywarts, there is asbestos sticking out of half the rocks in the state - they are actually fuzzy! And yes, there are people who think that the state/EPA should encapsulate the mountains with plastic - ever looked at what evils come from any plastic? Relax!
FRM
FR Millmore

Thanks Chris, Roger and Fletcher for the advice. FRM - had to laugh about the idea of plastic covered mountains! I will assume they are asbestos and take precautions, but I don't feel so paranoid about it now.

Erick
Erick Vesterback

Erick-
Glad to help - the plastic mountains is an actual serious (??) proposal in California, as more wretched ugly housing developments eat the mountains - I find it appalling and frightening in equal measure, but it is funny! As a BC resident, you are in the very same mountains as Cali, you've all been breathing "normal" amounts of asbestos all your life, especially since the sea is beating those rocks into dust and washing it up on shore to be blown inland.
FRM
FR Millmore

FRM
It is not known 'how much' asbestos you need to get in your lungs to cause disease, but postulated that the more you get the more likely you are to get sick. The effects don't manifest themselves for a long time, hence the perception that you need lots of exposure to get ill. The scaremongers may well be right, and as the precautions are pretty straightforward, why not take them???
Neil
Neil Lock

You will see that I recommend that you do in fact take any "reasonable precautions". No question about the advisability of reducing the exposure - and I do wish this had been publicized back when we used to routinely blow out brake drums and clutch housings with compressed air, then commonly given as procedure in shop manuals and such. But,I'm OK, and there are things you can do after the fact to reduce the evil effects.
FRM
FR Millmore

FR is quite correct, while there may not be a dosage curve for exposure to asbestose VS disease, the large majority of people that have actual lung problems from asbestos (different than just having a diagnosis of asbestosis i.e. asbestos particles in the lung) also were smokers.

Not sure if the new ones are asbestos, I believe some things can still be made of it. Soaking them in water or oil and covering with a plastic bag should significantly reduce exposure.

And FR. I once used to sample asbestos for a company I worked for. I have seen whole communities in Northern California get all bent out of shape because the gravel they used for years and years was crushed serpentine (asbestos bearing) rock.

If any of you are going to CA of MG 2007, nearly every inch of the soil containes asbestos. If you pick a grape leaf and look at it under a microscope, you will see asbestos from the soil tilling.
BEC Cunha

I have say the fire risk from the amount of petrol or kerosine I was applying to the donut area was probably less that that from my cigar lighter.

Oh, and "If you pick a grape leaf and look at it under a microscope, you will see asbestos from the soil tilling" Is this a good arguement for NOT drinking Californian wine? Nah! Can't be any good arguement for not drinking ANY wine!

Regards
Roger
Roger T

Safer to stick to beer?

Mike
Mike Standring

This thread was discussed between 19/04/2007 and 23/04/2007

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