MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGB Technical - Lead Based Paint

Can anyone tell me when lead based paint stopped being used in UK cars?

Particularly in MG cars.

I know someone who is restoring an MG in their garage but they have a small child. What exactly are the risks?
Rachel

In my sixties, I wonder how I lived past ten. Toy soldiers, indians, cowboys made of lead - ice cycles on the Christmas Tree made of lead - leaded gas - lead paint everywhere - asbestos shingles and insulation - liquid mercury in the palm of the hand (made pennies shine) - cigarette smoke in the home, in the car, in the teacher's lounge, in the elevator, in the local dinner - standing in the back seat or in your mamma's lap in the front of the car (what are seat belts?), fried bacon - real butter - real milk that you had to shake - runny eggs - polio, chicken pox, small pox, measles, whopping cough, mumps, typhoid, TB - riding a bike in a fog of DDT ......... the bomb.

Perhaps we worry too much.

Steve Buchina

Lead-based? Was cellulose ever lead-based? Household paint for wood contained lead, but rather than being fatal it was more associated with dulling the intellect. Mind you, with the populace we tend to see these days either it had far longer-lasting effects through succeeding generations, or the scientists got it wrong and the replacements are worse than the originals. It has been known - witness smoking in the early years of the century being good for you, thalidomide, cyclmates, and so on. The latest being these anti-bacteriological household wipes, sprays etc. for the paranoid when our bodies are full of bacteria and we would die wthout them. Cynical? Moi? To paraphrase Miss Piggy.
Paul Hunt 2

Can't help but jump on board here. I'm in New England where any house over 50 years old.....and that accounts for a whole lot of houses.....has lead paint throughout. I hear it on a regular basis: "oh, does this house have lead paint?". Give me a break. Of course it does....they all do if they are older buildings.

If you can't keep your kids from chewing on the window sills then you don't belong in an older home. Who knows, modern paints and varnishes might even be less toxic when eaten!

As to lead in auto paints......could be but never heard of it before. Use a good exhaust fan and wear a dust mask when sanding/grinding and you'll be fine. It's only common sense to do this anyway.

BH
BH Davis

Hi, thanks for your responses. I'm in agreement with you guys on this one. But it's not my car, garage or kid!

I'm asking because the father of the couple is restoring the MG in the garage.

The answer has to be correct but it will also determine whether or not either a) the child gets to spend time in the garage or b) whether the father is allowed to keep the car.

Lot at stake here, does anyone have any definitive answers and sources? Although all responses are welcome.
Rachel Blake

The garage is for the father and the car - the kid (wife) can play somewhere else (e.g., like outside or in other parts of the house).

Course - "it's not my car, garage or kid!"
Steve Buchina

This isn't a direct answer to your question but it indicates some old cars have used lead based paint. http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/airquality/publications/autopaints.html

Clifton
Clifton Gordon

Clifton,

Sheesh........looks about as close to definitive as you're going to get unless we get an MG paint specialist to respond! Great link.....thanks.

BH
BH Davis

There apparently are lead test kits available over the counter which could give a definitive answer but may not be particularly reliable. A quick Google search suggests that info on exact lead content of specific older auto paints is hard to come by but the bottom line is that yes, most (even modern) auto paints contain at least some lead, especially bright colors like yellow, red and orange. Lead helps make things bright, shiny and durable and like magpies, we like that a lot. One link for some info is http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/
airquality/publications/autopaints.html, this seems a bit over the top but the basic point is valid which is lead is nasty, and when around it especially in airborne form it's stupid not to take some basic precautions, e.g. respirator/mask, don't dry sand, etc. Another reference I found said that "by the 90's lead content had been reduced in auto paint to 3% or less" suggesting it is probably way higher in classic paint mixtures.

The sad truth is that our cars are toxic soups (after you sand through that layer of lead paint you will find abundant filler of what is probably lead-based body solder straight from the factory, etc., and what's that dripping on my shoe?) so either take some basic common sense precautions and get over it or find something else to do with your spare time. Wear a mask, minimize airborne dust, keep the kiddies out out of the garage until you clean up if you are concerned. I'm not trying to be particularly fip here but anything in life carries an inherent risk at some level; you could give up the MG and build models (nope, glue fumes) or take up woodworking (OMG, formaldehyde dust from the plywood...). I agree with Steve, I often wonder how I survived past three in the undiscovered world of risks and hazards that was the late 50's and 60's. Three cheers for Darwin I suppose, someone had to make it.
Jon Sjoberg

Sorry - the link above got fractured, this may work better:
http://www.environment.gov.au/atmosphere/airquality/publications/autopaints.html
Jon Sjoberg

Rachel,

To be absolutely certain it is possible to take a chip of paint and have it tested.

The risk factor for paint dust becoming an airborne pollutant is virtually zero but depends on the care taken by the person doing the restoration.

Lets face it anyone can take risks no matter how many laws are in place and whatever equipment is available to eliminate the hazard.

I understand the concern but it would seem to me the concern would also be shared by the father as well.

Pete.
Peter Thomas

re reading what I have just written above I forgot to say that lead paint test kits are available from many hardware stores.
They are normally sold to people restoring old houses to determine if the paint is lead based or not.

They give a simple YES / NO result.
For anything more specific a test laboratory report is most likely required.

Pete.
Peter Thomas

I do lead testing as part of my job at my company. The test kits you can purchase at the hardware store will be able to tell you if there is lead in the car paint.

You may have to find a spot where you can sand and cause a little dust to be deposited on the sand paper and then just test this.

Chemical stripping would be one way to reduce paint dust getting everywhere if there is lead, but these have their own issues.

BH

I take a similar stance. Amazing we ever survived childhood. I think the risks are minimal, but then if we can make things safer, we should always try.

I think the question is a valid concern.

(now saying that, I shoot black powder all summer long. The amount of lead I am exposed to has got to be moderatly high. But that is my choice and I know the risk.)
BEC Cunha

It is very likely that there is lead in the paint. However, there are many other hazards as well - other pigments of many different metallic compounds (there is an excellent Wikipedia article on pigments), chemical hazards from strippers, etc, and just plain dust. Sharp tools, electrical equipment, and heavy objects. Children should really be kept out until things are cleaned up, but none of this is a big deal unless they are unsupervised and/or feeding on the stuff.

Lead as such is considerably overblown as a hazard, and ther3e are simple nutritional measures that will not only deal with the lead, but also many other similar things. I suggest that everyone should obtain and study this book: "Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases, and Toxins"; by Thomas E. Levy, MD. That's a good start, and there is much else available.

FRM
FR Millmore

This thread was discussed between 07/10/2007 and 08/10/2007

MG MGB Technical index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG MGB Technical BBS now