MG-Cars.info

Welcome to our Site for MG, Triumph and Austin-Healey Car Information.

Recommendations

Parts

MG parts spares and accessories are available for MG T Series (TA, MG TB, MG TC, MG TD, MG TF), Magnette, MGA, Twin cam, MGB, MGBGT, MGC, MGC GT, MG Midget, Sprite and other MG models from British car spares company LBCarCo.

MG MGB Technical - Oil Sump Cover Implosion!

In my earlier thread I asked why my oil pressure suddenly dropped to zero. I found the answer to this problem but now I need help understanding what caused it.

Upon crawling unde my B to remove the sump cover I noticed that the sump appeared to have imploded. I pulled the cover off the car and discovered that the vaccum that caused the implosion was enough to suck the bottom of the sump cover in to the point where it actually snapped off the aluminum shaft going to the oil strainer!!! The bang I heard was when the broken part bounced off the bottom of the crank. Thank goodness it was made from soft aliminum and so there was no other apparent damage done.

Now the question is...what caused the vaccum?? The car is a 1973 MGB that has run for many years with HS4 carbs and the PCV valve as installed on 64 to 69 models. One recent cange I made was to replace the original valve cover that has the pipe elbow with one from a early valve cover without the elbow. The valve cover cap is of the vented variety.

Where is this huge internal vaccum coming from?
RES Schultz

I don't have an answer but where is the PCV valve connected? Has all the smog gear including the vapor cannister been removed? Are you sure the vent in the valve cover cap is clear? I'm thinking your PVC may have malfunctioned and caused the problem but that's a wild guess.

Cllifton
Clifton Gordon

Can you post a photo of your sump?

Clifton
Clifton Gordon

I would have to question the thesis that excessive vacuum deformed the sump sufficiently to cause it to snap off the oil pump strainer. I took a spare sump and stood on it. Did not deform it, with 180 pounds of weight on it, sufficiently to cause to cause the damage you describe. One wonders what amount of vacuum would be required to cause the sump to implode with sufficient force to snap off the strainer and its extension. Far more, I suspect, than can be generated by the cylinders' movement. Were the problem caused by a vacuum issue, I would have expected all of the sheet metal parts--tappet covers, sump, valve cover, and timing chain cover, to be affected, not just the sump. The tappet covers, in particular, are more likely to be deformed, due to their design, than the sump.

My theory would be that you either hit something or that some upwards force, such as a jack, was applied to the sump area causing such destruction. That theory explains much more than "vacuum" and would account for the fact that only the sump was damaged.

Les
Les Bengtson

Les,

I'm feeling pretty much like the village idiot. As it turns out my son-in-law tried to borrow a couple of my jack stands holding up my MGB while I was out of town. The moron took my floor jack and jacked up my car from under the sump cover. Nuff said.

Bob in Atlanta
RES Schultz

Bob. Did not want to mention it, but something like that was my guess. You should, probably, let the guy live if only for the sake of your daughter. Getting to help remove and replace the engine, and contribute to the necessary replacement parts, would be a generous thing for him to do. You will have to do a complete engine tear down. Damage to the main bearings and big end bearings is probable. Damage to the tappets, cam lobes and rocker arms is possible. Bummer.

Les
Les Bengtson

Bob,

Hope you love your daughter enough to not pull a "Godfather"!!!!

Good luck.......
BH
BH Davis

Bob,
Don't let your daughter drive in any car her husband has worked on.It's the only way to ensure her safety
Regards Peter
Peter Jones

The name 'Meathead' comes to mind. Sorry, but this guy should not be around jackstands.
M.A. Barrera

M.A. Most of us have been "young and stupid" in our lives. Most of us have progressed beyond that stage. Let us hope that the "son-in-law" will do the same. Beyond that hope, it is none of our business. "We do pray for mercy and that same prayer doth teach us all to render the deeds of mercy". (From memory--may not be absolutely correct.)

Les
Les Bengtson

Well, I guess a vacuum did cause this damage; it's in the scull of your son in law....., let him suffer (more) by showing our comments.

I do hope he performs better as an "in law" in other fields.

I must however confess to damaging father in law's belongings too;
1) Didn't tighten the third wheel enough in the upwards position when I borrowed his trailer, so when driving it touched the road, destroying the plastic bearings.
2) I wanted to check the straightness of an brake disk and used his lathe for it, some how I managed to break the holding mechanism thread ($$$).
3) I bumped off one of the sidelights of his camper when manuevering (sp.?) my caravan and was lucky to be able to replace it without him knowing...

To compensate he damaged the exhaust when he used a forklift to lift my MGB into long storage. I ask you; which is worse??

We do get along fine, probably because I take good care of his only grandchildren and daughter?
Willem van der Veer

In regards to your daughter and son-in-law....
do they have...or are planning on... having kids?

Years ago, I too have had certain tools in my
garage grow legs and disappear for several
days (and months) - only to mysteriously
reappear dirty and greasy or damaged.

Padlocks and braided steel cables stopped all that.
Daniel Wong

A stupid thing to do indeed - but haven't we all done something stupid?

Let's turn this thread into a 'stupid thing' amnesty... I'll start by admitting setting fire to an MG Montego Turbo by trying to disconnect the live terminal on the starter solenoid without disconnecting the battery - boy did that spanner get hot when it touched the inner wing! BTW, there were times when I thought about doing it again... you'll know what I mean if you ever had one!

Neil
Neil22

Amnesty? This isn't a case of a young child being the victim of his own ignorance and a lack of parental supervision. He's an adult, so he should be required to pay for all of the expenses resulting from his stupidity.
Steve S.

When I was young an more stupid, I wrecked my fathers pick up. Yep going to fast in a corner and it rolled. I got banged up but no serious injuries. The worst part of this was having to call my dad and tell him I wrecked his truck.

He came with a friend who has a wrecker and picked me and the car up. Did not say a word the entire night.

I spent the next few days hole up in my bedroom recovering. One day I heard the sound of a large truck coming into the yard. I looked out to see a flat bed with two damaged trucks on it. My dad came in and said, now we have three. I want one.

Spent the rest of the summer taking apart the three and building him one. Maybe one of the reasons I have no problems tearing into my MG's.

I recommend letting your son-in-law know that you expect him to set aside evenings and weekends to assist in pulling the engine and helping rebuild it.

He will haved paid for his goof, and may even learn to love the MG to the point where you have someone to leave it to.
BEC Cunha

When I was a teen rolled over my fathers car and destroyed it. There were six of us in the car and no serious injuries. The car stopped upside down in a ditch. I don't remember my father saying anything to me but I did have to help him convert the car a 38 Chevy into a Pick-up truck from a body he found. It happened during WWII and it was difficult to find parts to fix a car.

Clifton
Clifton Gordon

If the engine was not run under load, I'd pull a big end cap and have a look - the big ends would be the first to go, and if there's no sign of oil-starvation damage there, then the engine is fine. He owes you an oil pump, a sump, a case of beer and a lifetime of poking fun at him. You could say he owes you the labor to put them in, but I wouldn't let him anywhere near the car! Plus, it diminishes from the quality of the lifetime of grief you get to give him. I mean, he owes you! When you need your septic system cleaned out, you'll know who to call ;)

But I do fear for his life. If he has this little idea of how to support a car, and he's borrowing jackstands... this is a life threatening combination! If you want this man to live, you might want to teach him a few things. If you don't, just buy him his own set of jackstands and let nature take its course. These things have a way of working themselves out.
Sam Good

Sorry had to add a comment to this thread.
It reminds me of a guy who asked to borrow the neighbours garage to work on his car.... the garage had a pit to access the underneath, and the neighbour was going to be away for the weekend.
The guy wanted to check his Reliant Robin as he was hearing some funny noises from the underneath. He obtained permission and drove the car into the garage - and into the pit.
3 wheelers unfortunately don't align with the drive plates designed for 4 wheelers.
Well as the car had no sunroof, and the doors, front window and rear of the car where jammed by the sides of the pit, the guy was stuck and only found several hours later when missed by his wife for dinner.
The fire crew had to cut a hole in the roof of the car to get the guy out.
The neighbour had to dismantle to roof of the garage to lift the car out using a crain.

All in all a sump is perhaps not the end of the world!
Mike kemp

This thread was discussed between 02/09/2007 and 10/09/2007

MG MGB Technical index

This thread is from the archives. Join the live MG MGB Technical BBS now