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MG MGB Technical - Panhard rod diagrams/specifications

Hi,

Anyone got the specifications, diagrams or must do's for building up a panhard rod? If so please e-mail me.

Ta

Iwan
Iwan Jones

Not keen on Panhard rods, they're fine on track cars with little suspension travel, but induce increasing lateral movement of a live axle, with increased suspension travel. Watts linkage is much better as it maintains the axle centre line. It is marginally heavier however. Google Watts Linkage, you will see how it works.
Allan Reeling

Depends on how well engineered the Panhard Rod arrangement is.

For a length of around 36 inches the lateral shift is minimal even at full suspension travel.

36 inches is about 75 % of the track of the 'B at 48 inches and is about as long as will comfortably fit.


Watts linkages also mean more bearings (2 on a Panhard Rod and 5 on a Watts) and greater friction as well as a weight increase.

Shifting the static roll centre is also easier with a Panhard Rod. It can be done with both but the Watts set up takes more work.

Pete.
Peter Thomas

The "edit" window has closed so this is an extra bit I forgot to add to the piece above.

At a Panhard Rod centre to centre length of 36" and suspension travel of + or - 3" the side ways shift is 0.125" (1/8 th of 1 inch) and at 4 inches the sideways movement is 0.22 inches (less than 1/4").

Pete.
Peter Thomas

Iwan

I have sent you 7 photos of my MGB panhard rod. My car has the early 10 gallon strapped in fuel tank which gives less clearance for the 'rod'.

I cannot take any measurements at the moment because my car is in Australia and I am in Germany.

I bought the brackets originally but I have built in extra support to reduce the liklihood of tearing the boot floor. I also had a slightly different rod made by a friend from stainless steel which includes a slight kink to miss the rear of the salisbury diff housing. My car is now a V8 but still has the early fuel tank plus the later salisbury differential giving some clearance problems.

I believe this design gives the longest possible panhard rod, but I could stand corrected.

I hope this helps.

I always wanted to fit a panhard rod but now that I have done so I have mixed feeling about its effect on the handling. My main reason was to help to stop the tyres touching the wheel arches.

Ian
Ian Buckley

According to 'MGB The Complete Story' a test-bed MGA was fitted with trailing radius arms, Watts linkage and coil springs but was turned over and written off in testing. The Watts linkage was then swapped for a Panhard rod, but that suffered from mounting point breakages and rear-end steering, so as time was running out they went back to the MGA system which was cheaper albeit needing a 1" extension to the body, but that meant the spare wheel could lie flat and there were no suspension turrets which gives the B pretty good boot space.
Paul Hunt

Hi,

Thanks for all the replies, very interesting indeed.

Oops sorry Ian. My e-mail is iwanarfon@hotmail.com can't access the other one nymore. Could you please resend the pictures.

ta,

Iwan
Iwan Jones

Iwan

I have resent the email and photos. There are 7 photos and I will put one on here now for a sample.

Ian

Ian Buckley

Ian ,
what are your "mixed feelings" about the handling you mentioned earlier?

Pete.
Peter Thomas

Peter

Many years ago I did plenty of track days or as we called them sprints. However those days are over and I have not had the car on the limit very often since then and in particular since the panhard rod was fitted. As you probably know the car is now a V8.

With the panhard rod the car has a different feel when reaching the limit to the left and to the right. I am suggesting that it might break away more quickly than before and in a different manner left and right.

I hope that makes sense.

I am not criticizing panhard rods, just trying to make the point that perhaps they can increase the chance for some drivers to be caught out by rapid oversteer.
Ian Buckley

My V8 with Ron Hopkinson 'handling kit' front and rear certainly broke away sooner than my bog-standard roadster - not snap-oversteer like more modern cars, just sooner. However tyre choice has an even bigger effect, some USA Generals that I had on the rear were absolutely hopeless in the wet, they were too hard being intended for warmer climates. A friend in California who could get an employee discount on them said they wouldn't buy them as they were too slippy even for there.
Paul Hunt

Iwan
I have been running with a panhard rod for about 8 years and think they make an improvement to the handling. The car feels more predictable especially when driven hard.
My car has a 4.6L engine and I regularly do trackdays and tests. One being a high speed slalom between cones and I must say I have not noticed any difference between right and left turns.

They are very easy to make and normally run fron a bracket bolted to the passenger side boot corner and run along between fuel tank and axle to an axle bracket. If you go ahead make sure that the bar is level with the centr of the axle when the suspension is in its neutral (weight on car) position and make it as long as possible. It is also a good idea to use a rubber bush one end and a rod end the other.

What I mean by predictable handling is that the back doesnt snap out suddenly.
Sorry to those that have seen this before but here is a vid of the car on track and with nearly 300hp its very easy to hang the back out without fear of it suddenly going round on you. Sat Nav recorded 134mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWa4n7iVCm8

I could take some pics if you are interested in my setup.

Cheers

mark

M Rawlins

Hi thanks for all the pics.

How far below the boot floor is the centre of the hole for the rose joint/bush on the bracket to make it central for the axle?

Thanks

Iwan
Iwan Jones

Hi Ian,
Thanks for your feedback.

I understand what you are saying and I think as with all set ups there is a lot more to getting the handling where a driver wants it to be than a line on a spec sheet.

I appreciate your honesty and good luck with the V8.
Sounds like a fantastic car.

Cheers Pete.
Peter Thomas

PANHARD ROD Formula.

I didn't post this earlier but it may help anyone looking to work out the distances a horizontal link moves laterally for a given vertical distance.

This measures only distances and not angles so if you want to measure those there are separate formulae for doing so.
It is intended to be a "quick and dirty" method and as with any measurement it should be taken in context.

The formula is:

a squared divided by 2 times d , where:
a is the vertical distance from the horizontal , and
d is the centre to centre distance of the link / Panhard Rod / Suspension arm or whatever.

The resultant number is the actual sideways movement of the link moving end for a given vertical movement of the same end.

Some numbers to verify:
a = 3 inches.
d = 36 inches.

3 x 3 = 9
36 + 36 = 72.

9 / 72 = 0.125 inches which is 1/8 inch and is exactly the same dimension I found when I did this with a tape measure and marker pen on the fridge door in full scale.

Cheers , Pete.
Peter Thomas

Peter

Thanks for your comment. I would be interested in your view of my panhard rod and I have clear photos with me if you would like to see them.

If you email me I can send the same photos I sent to Iwan.

I cannot give Iwan any measurements at present because I am in Germany but will return down under soon. I would guess the pivot is about 75mm below the boot floor.

I bought the kit originally from AA in Adelaide, but as I said earlier, the actual rod is now different.

You are a lucky man being able to use the fridge door as a drawing board!!

Ian Buckley

Ian ,
There is an email on the way to you.

Cheers , Pete.
Peter Thomas

There's definitely a gap in the market for a sensibly priced panhard rod kit. I say sensible based on £65 on eBay for a Mk1 Escort kit, rather than £339 for an MGB kit! As far as I remember from my Mk2 Mexico days, the Escort rear suspension is not so different from the MGB...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Escort-MK2-Panhard-Rod-Kit-Group-4-RACE-RALLY-MK1-rs_W0QQitemZ290346296317QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item4399fce3fd

I'd like to see some pictures of your set-up Mark. And assuming that's Quarry, did you manage to stay on...!

Neil
Neil22

"You are a lucky man being able to use the fridge door as a drawing board!!"

Ah yes I can see it now...

Engine development by Porsche
Aerodynamics by McLaren
Suspension by... Fisher and Paykel?!

Ummm , perhaps not.


Cheers , Pete.
Peter Thomas

This thread was discussed between 18/10/2009 and 30/10/2009

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