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MG MGB Technical - pulling transmission/gear shift out

1974 1/2 GT
I am taking engine and gear box out( can't get used to calling it transmission)but can't get the gear stick off. I have all the engine and gear mounts off or lose and hopefully will lift it this weekend.
Do I need gear shift off prior to getting engine/gearbox out? and if so how do i do it, there just isn't enough room in the tunnel to get at bolts.
Thanks
Dave FL.
DJ white

"... there just isn't enough room in the tunnel to get at bolts."

You remove the shift lever from topside, in the interior of
the car - not from underneath.

Put the gearbox in neutral.

Remove the gearshift by first removing the shift knob; remove
the shifter boot plate (4 Phillips screws). You'll then see
3 hex screws holding down the shift lever retaining plate.
Remove the screws and plate. Screw the shift knob back on
the shift lever and pull straight up on it. When it pops out
be sure to not smack yourself in the face with it.

...and yes, you need to remove the shift lever before removing
the engine/gearbox.
Daniel Wong

Dave. To add a note to Daniel's posting, if the various mounts allow the gearbox to rotate it will be difficult to get the bolts holding the gearshift lever out. Removing the gearshift lever is one of the first things you do, not one of the last. Jack up the engine/transmission, as necessary, to allow the removal of the bolts, remove the cover over the gearshift lever, then remove the lever itself. There is a nylon bushing associated with the lever which will either come out with the lever or will be retained within the transmission. It should be inserted onto the end of the gearshift before the gearshift is assembled to the transmission. The three hold down bolts are special "shouldered" bolt, each having a spring under them. Be sure to bag then together so the springs do not get lost.

Les
Les Bengtson

Yes, as has been pointed out the only thing that has to come out is the shift lever there is no need to remove the extension on top of the gearbox and the shift lever is held in by only three bolts. Apart from the nylon bush there is a brass plunger which will pop out when you remove the lever, it has a spring behind it so be careful not to lose that.
Iain MacKintosh

Transmission to me is the whole thing from engine backwards i.e. gearbox, prop-shaft and axle, hence gearbox to me is just one part of that.

This gives rise to one of the longest running arguments in MGB-land - whether to remove the engine on its own or with the gearbox. Going by the hoist I used last time definitely separate, it was bad enough getting the hoist over the middle of the engine on its own (from the side of the car!) without the added weight of the gearbox. If I had to do both with the same hoist I'd still do them separately. With a different hoist, or roof mounted arrangement, maybe together, but the rear of the car has to be raised above the level of the front as well as the lever itself removed as described.
PaulH Solihull

Can one remove the gearbox after the engine has been removed? One probably can I'm sure - but is it difficult and wise to do so? Very soon I will be changing the clutch and the thought of wrestling with both engine and gearbox as the same time is a daunting prospect.
/Moss
Moss

Moss, yes it can easily be done using a trolley jack to support the transmission while you move it forward. RAY
rjm RAY

Yes, the gearbox comes out separately from the engine. You will need to unscrew and remove the speedometer cable (right side of transmission), disconnect the reverse lamp switch wires (2 wires on right side of transmission), depending on the model year and overdrive or not, disconnet the wires to the TCSA (transmission controlled spark advance about 1976 onward) or overdrive switch if equipped, take off the clutch slave cylinder (I use a zip tie around the forward or engine pointing end of it through the "eye" the clevis pin passes through so it doesn't pour out all its bushings and fluid on the floor), undo the 4 bolts holding the transmission crossmember in place, another bolt on the right side of the transmission crossmember usually provides stress relief for the transmission wiring harness and, depending on year model and previous owners, might hold other things, then drop it down under the car and out for servicing. You can pull the transmission forward and sit on the front suspension crossmember to do so, but that means getting to all transmission mounting bolts (6 total, I think) which calls for "kid" size fingers and dexterity. It's easier to keep the crossmember for the transmission attached until out from under the car. By the way, get plenty of "goop" handcleaner and some jersey gloves. It's likely to be an oily, greasy mess. The shift lever will likely require a tug to remove upwards. I did this on my 80LE a couple of months back and recall that the nylon bushing on the end of the shift lever fits snugly and requires some "oomph" to get it out of 30 plus years of road dirt and so on.
Rick Penland

You can remove the box after, yeah, but you don't benifit from being able to lift it using a hoist (well not until you lift it into the engine bay anyway).
Take everything off it (stick, speedo cable etc) and make sure the front end is supported well (this should be done anyway if you lift the engine out on its own). Then take off the prop shaft, then gearbox x-member and ease it forwards (to clear the crossmember of the monocoque) and down. Having someone stood in the engine bay to manouver the bellhousing end, and a bit of strong cord through the stick hole inside the car looped around the rear and held by a 2nd person is usually enough, then the guy in the bay pulls it clear of the crossmember while the rear is suspended on the cord and together you ease it down onto a trolly or something. I have an old skateboard for this task. Wheel it forwards, remove the gearbox x-member fully and hoist it out. Or lift it between you if you're feeling strong. You could even lift the front of the car and wheel it out/pull it out from under the vehicle.

If all you're doing is changing the clutch, though, I wouldnt remove the box at all.
RoadWarrior

I get the picture. My plan would be to take out engine then gearbox. When going back in the car then I would assemble both both before reinstalling.
/Moss
Moss

Hello Paul.

I love the little semantic differences of the language on each side of the pond. Over here, to me, gearbox and transmission are pretty much synonymous. Your definition of transmission is what I would call the “drive train”, except that to me the “drive train” would include the engine.

Moss,

You can do all of it in any order you wish (remove or install), except you can’t remove the transmission with the engine in place, and you can’t install the transmission with the engine in place. Opinions differ on doing them separately or together, but it works either way.

Cheers,
Charley
C R Huff

Charley,
You actually can remove the gearbox with the engine in place. A British couple who had a business here a few years ago showed me how it was done. You can, with some difficulty, remove the shifter extension from beneath the car. Some bolts can be removed from above after removing the shift lever. The remaining bolts can be accessed from below by reaching over the top of the gearbox. Once the extension is removed, the gearbox can be rotated to clear the bump for the pre-engaged starter and removed from the engine. The engine must be supported by a jack. I've done it once and will not do it again unless I have access to a lift. It is quite difficult on your back under the car, but is possible. The space between the tunnel and gearbox is very tight and I did have to cut and modify a few wrenches to accomplish the task. Also, the larger your hand the more difficult the task and the more blood spilt.
Joe G
J. E. Guthrie

Yes, in theory as well as practice, it can be done, but not with an OD trans. RAY
rjm RAY

excellent discussion.
I have the retaining plate off and direct access to the gear shift but foolishly threw the gear nob away in the early days of stripping the car down.
The gear shift is in neutral but shows no signs of coming up.
Now that I know it will come up and I won't damage anything I can devise a way to help it.

Dave FL.
DJ white

J.E. is right, you can remove a non-overdrive transmission with the engine in place from under the car. I placed blocks under the wheels to lift it all about 8 inches (not comfortable with jackstands on all corners). The gearbox cannot be pushed back into the tunnel the 6 inches or so required to clear the front shaft from the clutch assembly without removing the shifting tower. Nor will it angle downward over the body crossmember and come out with the tower in place. It's a somewhat blind job, but can be accomplished. In addition to the 6 bolts that attach the tower, there are 2 alignment pins. Thus, the tower has to be gently nudged off with a screwdriver. All that being done, getting the tower back on under the car is tricky. The shift mechanism in the tower mates to the shift linkage in the gearbox by way of a rotating ball assembly that is a bit tricky to get correctly lined up with the tower's alignment pins in the proper position and get it to go downward all at the same time. Furthermore, there is a "plate" in the gearbox that drifts around and, likewise, has to be lined up correctly. Rotated about under the car, gravity forces the "plate" out of position. It's easy enough to line all this up on the bench in the gearbox's normal position, but under the car, it's a real test of "holding your mouth just right" and takes multiple attempts. If you have nothing better to do for most a day, give it a try. The transmission is awkward to lower or lift under the car, but I have no problem carrying one around by hand. I estimate it weighs 75 to 80 pounds.
Rick Penland

Thanks Joe G. I didn't know that. I was just thinking it was good news in case I broke down on the road and had no lift. Then along comes RAY and Rick to say it can't be done with an overdrive. My GT has OD and my roadster will pretty soon.

Charley
C R Huff

Charley, I don't know if you can do it or not with an overdrive gearbox. I've never done it with anything other than non-overdrive. Actually, I was being a bit "tongue in cheek" when I said "...if you have nothing better to do for most of a day, give it a try." The only advantage to pulling the gearbox this way is when you absolutely don't have access to a hoist or, in my instance, the car is elevated for other renovations, the gearbox needs to come out and I just wanted to see if it could be done. I did it this way years ago with a 70 MGB when a clutch lining was almost totally gone and had to get to work the next day, but couldn't get a hoist. I don't recall having to remove the tower on the 70 MGB and noted on a few sites that the body crossmember that has to be cleared wasn't there or at the same location as it is on my 1980. Thus, some earlier models might have more room for this operation.

Hoisting the engine is the best solution by far. If it's just a clutch renovation, you don't need to remove the gearbox anyway. Furthermore, if you're obsessive like I tend to be, once the gearbox is removed from its mounting crossmember, the mounts will likely reveal themselves to be extremely deteriorated and you'll want to invest in another fix. That's about 6 pieces of new rubber.
Rick Penland

Charley - 'drive train' or 'power train' (Powertrain was the name of MG Rover's engine and transmission subsidiary) includes engine here too.
PaulH Solihull

Trying to remove a transmission, equipped with an overdrive unit, from beneath the car is impossible because of the size of the overdrive unit itself. When you try to rotate the transmission, to remove it, you run out of room. This topic pops up periodically on the board. RAY
rjm RAY

Well, short story is that I hope I never have to find out if it can be done.

Thanks,
Charley
C R Huff

This thread was discussed between 23/03/2011 and 29/03/2011

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