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MG MGB Technical - Radiator Replacement Options

Just as soon as I fix one thing, something else breaks.

So, my 72B now needs a radiator.

I've always had a slow leak that was manageable with stop leak, but today's 20 mile drive resulted in spray coming right out the front center of the radiator. So I'm up for a new one, not rebuilding my old one.

On Ebay I see used, new, aluminum, chinese, etc. I see $500 for aluminum and I see $200 for 3 core aluminum out of China w/$70 for shipping, I see $200 for new original equipment plus shipping.

I also see new plain original equipment at my local shop for $250 + 7-8% tax.

Are all standard radiators made the same, are they all 2 core, is the aluminum 3 core that much better. Is the $200 aluminum from China + $70 S/H. worth it.

Anyone have experience good or bad with after market radiators.

Thanks for the assistance, I'm limping around with water jugs at the moment.

BobA/Andy
R.W Anderson

Bob/Andy: While this might be a "20th Century" fix, do you have any old-fashioned radiator shops in your neck of the woods? Why replace?

In the old days (20 years ago) you could take out your old damaged radiator and get it repaired and reinstall it. My old one was repaired with a 4-row treatment, which was the hot set up for racers many years ago.

Don't forget that aluminum doesn't transfer heat as well as copper. And a "Chinese 3-row"? God help us all.

My advice - see if you can get 3 or (maybe, if they're good) 4 row reconditioning of your existing radiator.
John Zajac

Most of the radiator repair shops that I was familiar with as a Youth, are long gone. A price/sign of the environmental times. I was originally thinking of repair, re-core, etc., but essentially they'd have to rebuild my radiator, saving the top and bottom and putting all new middle. I'm thinking the re-core would be more than buying new.

And I agree completely with the concern over a chinese anything for the car. I remember japanese or chinese pistons for my triumph, back in the 70s, when parts weren't that available - the metal self destructed. Who knows what they were made off.

I see $500 aluminum, but wonder where they come from too, just like the after market replacement regular radiators, they all come from overseas too.

I'll look through yellow pages tomorrow to see what I find locally for a rebuild shop.
R.W Anderson

Bob/Andy-
Avoid the use of alternative copper-brass alloy matrixes which some claim are superior performers. The term “copper-brass” is actually misleading. Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. Brass has higher malleability than either copper or zinc, so it is excellent for forming into the intricate shapes involved in producing a radiator matrix. While it is true that copper in its pure state is a better conductor of heat than aluminum alloy, it must be noted that pure copper is also very soft and highly prone to corrosion. Pure copper work-hardens as it expands and contracts from cycles of heating and cooling and becomes very, very brittle, eventually cracking. It is also just too soft for use in a radiator matrix that will occasionally be struck by road debris such as rocks, etc., so it is alloyed with tin in order to impart hardness and strength, changing its heat conductivity for the worse. Copper also oxidizes quite rapidly, forming copper oxide, a material with considerably less heat conductivity than aluminum alloy. The effect on cooling capacity is not unlike the exterior of the cylinders inside of the coolant jacket of your engine having a coating of rust. While the copper industry is in fact developing new-technology radiator matrixes with super-thin tubes and fins that are intended to be competitive with existing aluminum alloy matrixes, as of yet they are not available outside of a laboratory. How much they will cost when they finally become available to the public is anybody’s guess. Aluminum alloy does a better job of dissipating heat, and it is notably lighter as well. For the time being, an aluminum alloy matrix is the way to go.

However, for those who persist in using a copper-brass radiator matrix, the L-type (Louvered Fin) X2000 matrix offered by Modine is an excellent choice. Flat fins as employed in the Original Equipment Morris radiators are technologically obsolete. Louvered fins create greater turbulence in the air passing over the cooling fins of the matrix, thus maximizing its heat-dissipating abilities. Modine’s website can be found at http://www.modine.com/ .

Relocating the oil cooler to a new position behind the front valance will provide unobstructed airflow to the radiator matrix, while mounting the vented front valance from the 1972 to 1974 ½ models along with a venting duct to the oil cooler will, in turn, provide adequate airflow to the cooler. As an additional benefit, this vented front valance was originally introduced as an aerodynamic improvement to reduce the tendency of the front of the car to “lift” at high speeds.

My 1924cc engine has a Derrington crossflow head and a Piper 280 camshaft, and the four-row aluminum core has always managed to keep the coolant temperature stable, no matter how hot the day and how hard I drive it on steep mountain roads. As an additional side benefit, it's lighter then a standard radiator as well.
Stephen Strange

Regarding aluminum vs copper heat transfer: Copper is better if all else is equal, but aluminum radiators have greater contact area between the tubes and the fins.

Regarding source of $500 aluminum radiators: there are many good specialty radiator manufacturers across america that make radiators to spec. I got one recently from Griffin radiator in South Carolina.

Regarding 'rows': As I understand it, the reason for multiple rows is because the brass tubes can only be so large. To increase the fin to tube contact area, more rows of tubes are used. The rows number is more relevant for brass/copper radiators (aluminum radiators may specify a number of rows, but should also specify the depth (front to back) of the tubes).
Dave McCann

It may be worth having a go at repairing it yourself.
Remove it and backflush it to get rid of the radweld. Bung up the outlets and pump air in while immersed in a tub to find the leaks. Mark them up. You can move the vanes enough to clean the leak and use a blowtorch and plumbers copper solder to seal it.
c cummins

Interesting side note above about relocating the oil cooler to get better "unrestricted" air flow to radiator. The comment about ducting from valance to oil cooler as an alternative is what caught my eye.

I don't have a valance on my 72B. Didn't have one when I bought it, been looking for one since. Haven't found a used metal one yet, and the plastic ones sometimes don't have the vent or openings in them.

Some have commented that valance may accomplish two things 1) improved air flow to radiator? 2) improved front end stability at high way speeds. My B shakes very badly up around 70 mph - but now I've gotten way off topic....

I'll keep looking for a valance, and I'll look at improving air flow to my new radiator eventually.
R.W Anderson

Have it re-cored/rebuilt. I had mine recored.
rich osterhout

I had mine rebuilt adding a proper width top splash panel, with a drain plug in the bottom tank and a temp sensor fitting for the electric fan in the top tank. No it wasn't cheaper but I figured it was better. (Do you want a cheap one or a good one....etc)!
Michael Beswick

RW-
Moss Motors here in the USA can supply the later Chrome Bumper Front Valance with 2 Vent Holes. It's Part # 457-115 for $169.95. Victoria British can also supply it, Part # 9-918, for $109.95. Our British cousins can get it direct from the manufacturer, British Motor Heritage, which can supply the later Chrome Bumper Front Valance with 2 Vent Holes. It's Part # HZA592 for 68.69 UKP.
Stephen Strange

Aluminium, and (so I have been told) even plastic radiators are used on modern cars because they are so much cheaper. They can be made large enough to suit the much greater efficiency of modern cars i.e. less waste heat, they also tend to run hotter anyway. I doubt one of those to the same dimensions would give adequate cooling without one or two whopping-great close-coupled electric fans with shrouds.
Paul Hunt 2010

I'm stalled on buying a new radiator until I can better determine options and benefits. Of interest, is that the pressure leak on Sunday, with spray going out from of radiator just up to left of center of fins, has totally stopped.

What was a major spraying on Sunday afternoon, has stopped for now, topping off radiator with water Sunday has resulted in no loss of coolant on Mon or Tues drives. It is as if the previously installed stop leak, found the leak and plugged it, for now.

Yes, I realize I'm on borrowed time, but it is still interesting. Maybe some major obstacle in cooling system made it to the hole ?

Ahh, cars !
R.W Anderson

I would avoid an aluminum radiator. If I were you, I would have your old radiator re-cored with a copper three-row core. I did this with the 3-main B engine fitted in my MGTD. Worked perfect.

The reason aluminum radiators are popular in modern cars is that they are much cheaper to manufacture. The OEM engineers take the aluminum's lower heat transfer properties into account when the radiator is designed.
Frank Grimaldi

I've also been calling old radiator shops and learning old things.

Like why some people sell 3-core radiators that don't have much improvement over original 2-core radiators. Has something to do with spacing of tubes on 2 core vs. 3 core. Some 3 cores wind up with the same amout of tubes, as 2 core; they are just spaced further apart.

This is starting to sound like buying life insurance; one is always stuck trying to compare apples to oranges.

4 days and no re-occurence of pressure spraying leak of last Sunday.
R.W Anderson

Know my town in WI has an old fashioned radiator shop. They can put a new core in, but they also repair radiators. The do a lot of old tractors and for these, sometimes there is not a new core.
Bruce Cunha

Bob-
I STRONGLY recommend a new “high efficiency” core in your original tanks. The reproduction radiators that I have seen (and experienced) are made with lighter gauge metal than the originals, and I had a reproduction tank split open on a seam, instantly overheating my engine. Do not throw your old radiator away! I am using
High efficiency core from Mattson’s Radiator in Stanton Ca. 40 rows across and 3 deep, 120+ tubes. Original MG cores are 30 across and 4 deep staggered, 120 tubes. Cools extremely well!
Matt
M. H. Dabney

This thread was discussed between 16/05/2010 and 28/05/2010

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