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MG MGB Technical - Roller Rockers for 18V engine

Hi I am thinking of getting a set of Roller Rockers for my 18 engine.

Have seen a set provided by Brown & Gammons at £354 and also a set from Moss at £819.95!

There is a big difference in cost between the two!

I would be happy if someone with the B&G set would comment and tell if it is recommended to buy it!

Best regards

Anders / Sweden
Anders Dahlberg

Take a look at what S. Strange has to say about them,and P. Burgess. They are advanced pieces of tecnology but perhaps a little over the top for road use. Then the 'roller' parts of the rockers do not actually roll a complete circle, so perhaps wear unevenly. Many of the sets, (I don't know if Moss is like this) have the altered ratio to give more valve lift. There is hence a fair strain on the rest of the valve train.Even at 354 odd pounds, it is a lot of money for little difference. A high lift cam, with a good head tuned Su's and standard exhaust manifold might be better value. Then again, you cannot better cubic capacity, so a bigger block?. Am I correct folks? Mike
J.M. Doust

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your answer!

I already have one of Peter´s heads made for my Moss Supercharger, a camshaft provided by Peter and a exhaust manifold from Maniflow. My father has made a set of roller rockers for his XPAG engined TA-Special with a Crossflow head. I suppose thats one of the reasons for wanting one! :-)

Best regards

Anders

Anders Dahlberg

Very nice Anders, but still if you already have a head, and supercharger, cam, and maniflow, I reckon you've got enough already!. Mike
J.M. Doust

Hi Anders

We are testing Harland Sharp roller rockers at the moment. We bought bare 1.625:1 rockers in large enough quantity to sell them out at £220 plus vat for 8 when we are ready. To keep costs to a minimum you would need to use your rocker shaft, rocker posts, adjusting screws and nuts and springs/spacers. The arms have plain bushes (same as standard ones) so there is no wear problem associated with needle-type bearings/bushings.
We have achieved good results on a +60 engine with Fast Road head and 270 cam but I am running a 1950 B with the rockers next week. This 1950 has been the subject of before and after 123/123Tune and poor old Jim is now our 1.625:1 rocker Guniea Pig.

Peter
Peter Burgess Tuning

Anders,
The last 3% of any enterprise is always the most expensive. Peter's product may be much more cost effective but the limiting factor on any pushrod engine is still going to be the rods themselves. (Smart valve gear on the XPAG notwithstanding).
R Walker

Very interesting Peter. And Anders im looking forward to seeing the cars at a club meeting!

Id be very interested in the results of these trials Peter and as you might guess, ill have a set when your ready with them.

Keep me in the loop :)

Peter << thursday >> and thanks, the flu is gone now!
Jamie Shaun Ahlund

Hi Peter,

Very interesting concerning the RR, let me know how they work out. Father is now ready with the bonnet of the MG TA-Special (Q-Type) after making a tool to produce the louvres. Took a couple of months alltogether. Therefore the engine with the Cross Flow head is not yet started but it is getting close!

Best Regards

Anders
Anders Dahlberg

Hi Anders

The roller rocker project is also part of David Gollan and myself revisiting the MGB book. We wrote it in 1996 and it is well due an update/rewrite. We have used the new rolling road for two years and have a lot of data to share plus 16 more years under our belts.... lots more grey hair but less of it! I will post the figures next week when we find out how Jim's car fares.

I am looking forwards to seeing your Dad's car. If people on the threads do not know, Ingvar, Ander's Dad produces the most exquisite award winning miniature engines and cars as well as full size ones.
Here is a link to the Mercer page, if you follow the links section you can see some of his other work.

http://home.swipnet.se/mercer/


Peter


Peter Burgess Tuning

WOW - thanks Peter for sharing what Anders wasn't!!!! That is amazing, and I particularly liked the photo on the last page - with the very cool "photo" of your dad having his dream to "drive" it :)

Such wonderful work :)
rachmacb

Hi Rach

What you really want to see is the home made miniature
cam grinder Ingvar made to make his cams!

The most amazing engine to me is the one he made when he was in his very early teens( Anders may give more info) it is a single cylinder two stroke model aircraft engine. He used it when he was a Physics teacher to show IC. The complete engine is all handmade.

I am also fascinated with the radial engine he made. Mind you all the engines are most exquisite to see and the enthusiasm (which Anders has inherited) is really good to see and bask in.

I reckon you should persuade Ingvar to bring some over for a display at an MG show.

Peter
Peter Burgess Tuning

It would be amazing to see some over - perhaps he should just bring them anyway - if they are coming to one? :)

The crank was amazing enough - but to make minature cams as well - and I wish that my physics teacher had been that interesting .......

Please bring them over - I'm sure that Peter and I aren't the only ones who would love to see them
rachmacb

Hi Peter and Rach,

Yes he is a wonderful and interesting father I know! :-)
We have actually been to England at six different occasions attending large model exhibitions, last time in 2008. After this the TA-Special has been taking too much time from the modelling But there is a new project that has started! On our way to Andy King in 2007 we stayed at Mallory Park and father saw some interesting aero engined cars with chain driven rearaxles. This has now resulted in a chassis with chain driven rearaxle and an aircooled V8.

And Rach you might see some more on the following link

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Dahlberg.htm

Best regards

Anders

Anders Dahlberg

Oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - it's only 175km from Goteborg ... perhaps I should go visit my "brother" :)

Thanks Anders - I very much enjoyed spending time on the site and looking at the photos - and the workshop is amazing - I think I would have died and gone to heaven!
rachmacb

Wow, I have just found these pictures also! Crumbs, it put us all to shame, well me really! What exquisite work.Pas my sincere admiration to your Father Anders. Mike
J.M. Doust

Hi all,

Give us a call Rach when visiting your brother! And Mike I will tell my father that you liked his work.

I enclose some more photos from his present work.

I suppose that I only can upload one photo at the time so I take the TA-Special first and the Old 16 replica in the next comment.

Best regards

Anders



Anders Dahlberg

And a photo of the Old 16. But it will get a aircooled V8 instead. Old 16 was an american Locomobile that today is at the Henry Ford Museum in the USA. In 1903 a famous racer!

/Anders

Anders Dahlberg

The Old 16.

/Anders

Anders Dahlberg

Such amazing workmanship. I am absolutely staggered at the quality. Jim
jim soutar

Anders - holidays aren't so common - but, I do think it's about due - perhaps next year I can persuade my parents that they do have time to come and supervise someone here (10 horses do make holidaying a little difficult to organise!)

But now I have another good reason to make it happen :)
rachmacb

Anders-
MG is absolutely stunning!
A gold medal to your father for vision, taste, and craftsmanship.

In the mid 1950s, the National Fall Meet of the Antique Automobile Association of America was held entirely inside the stadium at Hershey PA, instead of spread out over a huge area as it has been for many years now. The noted painter Peter Helck owned Old 16 then, and used to drive it at speed around the stadium every year, with a couple of thousand people standing right next to the track. No fences or guardrails etc. A glorious sight and sound that I was privileged to see and hear many times; he would go out every couple of hours over the two day show. At that time the car was exactly as it had come off the Vanderbilt Cup course in 1903, not polished or anything.

FRM
FR Millmore

Anders, this is NOT FAIR!!!!
After seeing the pics from your fathers T-Type I know that I am a complete failure in any workshop!!!
AMAZING
SIMPLY AMAZING

Jörn
Joern-M

Peter,
In your new edition for the MGB book, will you include a fuel injection modification?

werner haussmann

Hi Werner

No we will not be addressing fuel injection on B heads. With the CI head there is a fair amount of info on the web with A series mega squirt using two injectors per port cos of charge robbing. Webcon have used throttle bodies on the MSX heads to good effect. Full setups for MSX x-flow heads are available from them.

We do not have experience of the Moss system for CI heads either.

Peter
Peter Burgess Tuning

Hi Anders

The results are in and are very good. Jim had to rework his pushrod sleeves/holes in the head and shim the shaft an extra 2 mm on his particular setup. We will look into this ourselves and see what issues there are. The increase in torque and bhp was very marked and we all had smiley faces. I attach the before and after fitting of the roller rockers. The before and after are with best fuelling and ignition timing with the 123T we could achieve in both cases. We had to reduce the timing between 2-4 degrees above 2000 rpm.

Peter

Peter Burgess Tuning

Peter-
Well that was certainly worthwhile!
And right where you want it.
I reckon the timing retard need tells you something about volumetric efficiency.

FRM
FR Millmore

Peter,

The 1950cc, is it a mildly modified engine apart from the displacement? Or a completely rebuilt race set up?

Jamie




Jamie Shaun Ahlund

Anders,

I had seen the steam engine before on a youtube clip. I had no Idea that it was your fathers work or that he had built even more spectacular projects. I should have guessed that he had good taste in cars.

Fantastic works of engineering, a really great skill to master.

I think we all wish we had access to that workshop of his! Thanks for sharing the links.

Jamie
Jamie Shaun Ahlund

Hi Jamie

Fast Road head (1.625" inlet valves and 1.343" ex valves), HR270 Piper cam 9.75:1 CR, 1 1/2" SUs, K&N filters, LCB manifold and free flow exhaust system. The engine runs a 123Tune distributor.

Peter
Peter Burgess Tuning

Thanks for sharing the info Peter.

So apart from those mods, all else is standard. Very very cool indeed.

As an amateur id stick my neck out and say that looks like a reasonable not over the top build with very impressive dyno results.

I am excited :)

Jamie
Jamie Shaun Ahlund

This thread was discussed between 22/04/2012 and 03/05/2012

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