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MG MGB Technical - Tightening spinners

I've just bought some new 2 eared spinners to replace my battered old ones. With the old ones I’d tighten them with a Thor copper and hide mallet with a soft piece of aluminium placed over the ear for protection.

I've read lots over the years about the best way to tighten them including the wooden wrench that now seems popular. I've used the method suggested to me by the owners club advice line, that is, tighten with the hide mallet and then 3 good whacks with the copper end. I've also read that the spinners will self tighten, although I'm not convinced of this having seen a Jag lose a wheel at Goodwood a few years ago. What I’d like to be able to do is tighten them with a torque wrench.

I’d considered making an adaptor that would fit over the ears with a half or three quarters socket welded to it that I could then use a torque wrench on, but what figure would I use? Considering the size of the nut and the course thread it’s got to be a fairly high valve but what?

These look a nice tool but the price is a bit steep and they’re sold out. In this link they talk about 160 – 220 ft lbs

http://knockoffspinnertool.com/

http://knockoffspinnertool.com/two_eared_spinners_42mm_-_52mm

I'm sure a lot of people will say these wheels have been used for a hundred years without major issues and why bother, I can only answer it must be the engineer in me that would like to know that they're not too lose or too tight.

Bob
R.A Davis

They *do* tighten in use, any number of explanations out there, there could be any number of reasons for your Jag wheel falling off. Mine need more effort to loosen then I give them on tightening - and the threads and tapers are lubricated. One recommended tip for dealing with stuck spinners is to reverse round and round in a tight circle with the stuck spinner on the outside. It's also why MGB and similar spinners are left-hand thread on the right-hand side, whereas Lotus have them on the left, because Lotus spinners interface with the wheel in a different way to how the MGB one do.

I've got a Thor nylon and aluminium hammer and have been using the nylon side directly on the ears for over 20 years with no damage at all - not surprisingly really. I did use a wooden 'spanner' on a pals car at his request, but it still needs hitting to loosen at least, and I certainly didn't like hitting it so close to the bodywork.

I've pondered a socket attachment as well, but certainly not at those prices. But if I had one I'd tighten the old way, then see how much torque it needed to undo immediately, and use that. I suppose 160 to 220ft lb is in the right area, the Banjo axle hub nut is 180ft lb and that's about the same size, I wouldn't go up to 220.
Paul Hunt

Bought one of those giant orange plastic dead blow shot filled mallets for the wheels on our elan and it's great
Had the wheels off a fair few times and there's no sign of a mark on the spinners--yet
There were orange ones and black, the orange appeared to be a softer plastic so went that way-
willy
William Revit

I know it was expensive, but I have bought one of those Sarto Rocheleau tools for the three-eared spinners on my Elan. It is an excellent piece of kit, even if it is over-priced. I use a 2 foot long breaker bar and put all my weight on it close to the end of the bar. Since I weigh about 150 lb, I reckon I'm close enough to the recommended 200 lb.ft the Elan is supposed to need. The large rubber wedge provided completely prevents the wheel from moving.

Paul is right, the spinners on the Elan are the opposite thread to an MGB which seems wrong, but the spinner on the Lotus fits inside the wheel centre rather than over it, and that seems to make the difference. Elan wheels don't seem to come off!
Mike Howlett

Another vote for a dead blow hammer. Saves messing with protection peices and you can get a very very good whack on the spinner without risk of rebound or damage. You may have to give the spinner a quick wipe to get rid of rubber reside though, if you get one without the nylon end caps.
Roadwarrior

Interesting, a mate has a couple Mk4 AC Cobras with knock-on wheels
The spinners on these taper inside the wheel the same as an Elan as opposed to outside as on a wire wheel
They are rh thread on right side and lh on t'other
The spinners and wheels on both cars have little holes in them to facilitate wiring the spinners and in the handbook with one of the cars it recomends wiring the spinners to reduce the risk of loosening
It sort of defeats the purpouse of knockon wheels a bit if you have to remove wire and rewire to get the wheel off- may as well have a set of wheelnuts, but having said that they do look special with the big spinner and a tie wire off one of the ears
He bought one of those three eared socket wrenches but it was a bit dissapointing really as it was made of steel with no protection and it marked the knockon straight away---it's in the bin ,AND it wasn't cheap
Also years ago I can remember having the diff of our race car apart as it had a bent drive tube
Had a new tube and fitted it up and set the crownwheel and pinion up and all and then dicovered I had the tube in the wrong way round with rh thread on the left instead of right. well,long story short, it was late and nearly time to race so thought surely if we tighten the wheels up tight enough they will stay tight
They were large (about 5" accross)wheelnuts and tightened them up swinging on a bar about four feet long
They would have had to have been about 400/500ft/lb
Went out and it would have been probably two kilometers and loose wheels
So when around the correct way I would say they definately self tighten
When they were around the right way we never ever had a wheel come loose, it was more of a problem actually trying to get them off when they were hot,they would be as tight as
willy
Just to explain, it was a live axle, no drive shafts just a rotating 3" tube
William Revit

Another vote for a dead blow hammer, i have a Snap On one it weighs 48 ozs, and is perfect for spinners no marks no damage, A.T
andy tilney

andy
Yep, that's the same size I have 3lb, the head of it is ROUGHLY 2" dia and about 4" long
I love the feel of it , thump,done
cheers
willy
William Revit

Older cars particularly racers did have wired spinners, probably because mechanics didn't believe the self-tightening theory. Bugattis typically have all nuts wired, even those merely securing sill-like side-panels to the chassis rails. I have read that when some American manufacturer or other first moved to multi-stud hubs and wheels they still put left-hand threads on one side, for the opposite but still unwarranted fear.
Paul Hunt

Paul, that would have been Chrysler, back in the '60s and early '70s. If you didn't look closely at the stud and see the L, you'd be trying to remove that lugnut all day long. RAY
rjm RAY

Quite a few of the smaller light trucks here still have lh thread on their lh wheels
willy
William Revit

Reminds me somewhat of my early GPO days when the vans had wheel nuts with a locating dome on both sides, so the mechanics couldn't get them on the wrong way round :o)
Paul Hunt

I'm a 4 lb. dead blow hammer person also - cheapest is here
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-lb-neon-orange-dead-blow-hammer-41800.html
but I reckon the ultimate is a 6 lb lead hammer.

There is no doubt knock offs are self tightening - try to get them undone after a day at the track of hard driving or motorkhanas on asphalt!
A good explanation of the tightening process is here
http://www.mgaguru.com/mgtech/wheels/wl102.htm
Mike
Mike Ellsmore

Damn -
I've been ripped off again, I paid nearly twenty bucks for mine at supercheap
A couple of years ago I melted a stack of old wheelweights down and poured into a mould made from a cordial can - It made a real wacker of a hammer but some lightfinger borrowed it
I'm sure they'll bring it back - or not
One thing though the wheel weights were mostly off imported light trucks and the lead appeared to be a bit harder than REAL lead. If I make another one I'll be a bit more choosey and pick out softer weights for the job
willy
William Revit

"I reckon the ultimate is a 6 lb lead hammer."

I bought a lead hammer when I fitted wire wheels, but it looked way too hard to me. One tentative tap on a spinner left a small mark, so after that I always used a sacrificial block of wood until I got the Thor hammer with the nylon/alloy inserts.
Paul Hunt

Dead blow hammer is the best.

You see lock wire on the spinners on race cars, not because they do much but because the organizers figure they might do something. I hit Monterey one year and was told they had to be lockwired, so spent an uncomfortable hour with a battery powered drill to stick some wire on my Twin Cam knock offs. Removed it when I went racing where it wasn't required.

I often grab a piece of 1x2 wood if I don't have the dead blow handy. It cushions the blow (you have to replace it after it eventually splinters).

Use the same technique on my old Italian car (pic attached).

Bill Spohn

I've tried everything from the wood tools to the lever type, copper, rawhide, rubber, plastic, lead, etc. The best I've used to date are the fake lead hammers sold by Moss and others. You can literally hit as hard as you like and not leave so much as a scratch. The only downside is that after probably 100 wheel swaps, the hammer will need to be replaced. But at only $20USD or so it's well worth it.

In addition to being comfortable to use, whatever hammer you choose needs to do two things. It needs to be safe on the chrome and brass, and it needs to be heavy enough to reach the required tightness.
Steve Simmons

This thread was discussed between 21/03/2015 and 12/04/2015

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