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MG MGF Technical - ? Head gasket failure

Any advice would be much appreciated !
I first had a head gasket failure about 9 months ago at approx. 30,000 miles (car registered Sept. 2000). Last week, having been stuck in a traffic jam for several hours, on unpacking the boot I noticed an unpleasant smell. The next morning I checked the coolant tank and it was almost empty. I topped it up and took it to a local garage who couldn't find anything wrong with it. The coolant still seemed to be losing, although the temperature gauge remained steady, and the smell continued so I took it back to the garage who'd done the work on the first HGF, who also said they couldn't find a leak. On looking at the coolant this morning there is brown gunge in it - I read on a web site that "there should be no evidence of oil or brown gunge. If the latter, then the head gasket has failed". So, phoned the garage who informed me it was nothing to worry about and the reason for this was because they'd put in some sort of sealant thing to stop any leaking ? Would never want to doubt a mechanic as I haven't the foggiest idea about cars but I'm not imagining the strange smell and loss of coolant...... any ideas ?
Sarah

Sounds like a faulty coolant tank cap, these cost about £8 at halfords


>the reason for this was because they'd put in some sort of sealant thing to stop any leaking ?

Yuck, 'Bars - stopleak' is what they used, it is an old product and I wouldn't have put it in my engine, but that said, it _should_ not do any harm
Will Munns

Sarah - you're getting a hot sweet odour when you open the boot? Sounds like coolant boiling off.

Could be a leaking expansion tank as Will suggests.

Replace the cap by all means, but I'd also do close inspection of the engine: do you, for example, see any coolant on the floor under the car after it's been parked for a while? If near the right side rear wheel, then it could be evidence of a head gasket failure.

Coolant loss can also result from leaking pipework or damaged radiator - so these too are areas that require some closer inspection.
Rob Bell

Sarah, I posted a month or two ago re similar brownish-white gunge symptoms in my 97 expansion tank. AA came out, checked for exhaust fumes in the coolant and concluded that there was no evidence of HGF. Some 1500 miles later still going strong though coolant has dropped down to below the seam, despite no obvious signs of leak - again AA said don't worry "coolant will find it's own level".
Paul Bevan

<Sounds like a faulty coolant tank cap, these cost about £8 at halfords>

Got mine from my local Dealer for around £3.75.
dk

Sarah,

If you have the sickly sweet smell of antifreeze then the coolant must be leaking out of the engine somewhere - worst case is because you have a HGF, best case is the coolant cap has failed – in between you have a leaky hoses!

If the water is escaping via the cap then I would have thought there should be some evidence of the coolant on the outside of the coolant revervior.

Since you smelt the odour after a few hours(!!!) in a traffic jam, perhaps the radiator fan is not operating and the engine overheated slightly – don’t know whether this is likely during the winter though.

It would appear your garage thinks there is a leak, hence them putting some sealant in the coolant. I assume the mechanics you use all ride horses and wear ten gallon hats as only cowboys would try and mask the problem rather than affect a cure. I also thought the K series engine (as fitted in the F) does not like the use of sealants – indeed the Owner’s Manual has a specific warning on page 71 “DO NOT use …..other additives to the coolant – these may not be compatible with the coolant or engine components”!!!!!!!

Good luck when you next go to Dodge City to visit your garage!

Patrick
Patrick Beet

Thank you all for your helpful comments. I'll get a new coolant tank cap tomorrow and try that. Rob - it was too dark and wet when got home last nite to check for leakage under car, but I'll look later today - many thanks for advice. Don't think I'll be going back to the garage after your comments about the sealant!
Sarah Edwards

Before you give Halfords £8 put a tissue-paper necklace around the expansion tank filler cap and check it after a couple of days for tell tale stains.
jt
John Thomas

Hi everyone,
Well, bought a new coolant tank cap from Halfords - only £2.99! But, don't think thats the problem - still sweet sickly smell and I did notice a wet patch underneath right rear wheel this morning which did smell like coolant. Also on dipping my finger in the coolant, the brown gunge (assumingly the sealant put in by garage) is now in big brown globules! Therefore, have booked it into an MG Rover garage for a full service tomorrow! Dreading being told its another head gasket failure !
Thanks for all your helpful comments.
Sarah
Sarah

It doesn't sound encouraging Sarah, although there is a chance that the coolant is from a leaking hose or connection - but if the pool was adjacent to the right rear wheel, I am 99% sure that this is indeed another HGF :o( Sorry.

Hopefully you'll be covered by the dealership's workmanship warranty (12 months?)
Rob Bell

Hi Rob,
Yep - you were right ... gasket went on the Kings Road, Chelsea this morning (not the best place to break down in rush hour traffic!) while taking it into the MG/Rover dealer!!! RAC took me in so I've left it with them. Both Dealer & RAC guy were horrified at the gunge/sealant the last garage put in the coolant tank and said before they looked at anything they'd have to flush it out. The dealership said if they'd done the previous HGF, it would have been covered under warranty, but as it was done by a non MG/Rover dealership I assume I'm not covered. Not a good start to the week!!
Sarah
Sarah Edwards

Arrgh! :o(

Sorry about the bad news Sarah. Perhaps worth getting some advice (legal and mechanical) regarding the workmanship of the last headgasket replacement: the use of a sealant is not good practice.
Rob Bell

Sarah,

I'm with Rob.

The guys who did the first head gasket repair obviously failed to complete the work to a satisfactory level.

It's no excuse that they are not an MGR dealer.

I'd take the RAC report to them and threaten them with legal action if they don't either pay you for the additional work required, or give you a full refund for the previous work.

It's worth a try.

Sam
Sam Murray

Sarah,

Sorry to hear of your trouble. Now, after 2 head gaskets going regardless of whos to blame me thinks its time to sell the car and move to something more reliable.
Dick Pullar

alternatively you could develop a real hatred for the car, divest yourself of any kind of life whatsoever and while away your time sitting in front of a computer screen posting offensive remarks, fishing for a response like mr pullar. there was a posting from scralet on here a while ago along the lines that internet trolls only post for the satisfaction of getting a response, self gratification. dick pullar then is very aptly named indeed.

J
Jasper

Did you make that up yourself ? Arent you a clever boy ;-)
Lets face it the MGF is unreliable. The build quality is a joke, and they have anorak clad owners. ( possibly due to the amount of water they let in ).
Dick Pullar

So Dick Pullar what car do you have then? I'm sure your chaved-to-the-nines 1.1 Nova with is just such the height of sophistication and exquisite styling, especially with the 12 year old "Girl friend" with bangle hoop earing accessories.
Charlie M

Rob & Sam,
Thanks for your kind advice. I've just heard back from the dealership - they don't think the other garage every skimmed the head gasket when it supposedly went last April - who charged me £1,000! That and the sealant disaster.. I'll definitely be taking this up with the garage and RAC who took me there in the first place!
Sarah
Sarah

No no Charlie, Dick Pullar is right!

We have had our *F* nine years now, since new and the long list of troubles are:-

Leaky coolant hose eighteen months ago, blown tail light bulb about five years back and the dealer wasn't happy with the MEMS unit and replaced it under warranty whilst in for service eight years ago.

Then there are the 'difficult to put your finger on it' problems, like the grin one has a job to remove after driving the *F*, the pleasure one gets from meeting other *F*ers and this strange desire to want to go for a drive even when there is no need to go for a drive.

Ted
Ted Newman

Dick..............

Good name, you ARE one!!!!!!!!
Tony

This thread was discussed between 27/01/2005 and 01/02/2005

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