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MG MGF Technical - 1.9 and 2.0 K series engines

I have been considering upgrading my engine with either a Scholar Engineering 1.9 or a Judd 2.0 K series. I have spoken to Judd. They are still doing the 250 plus bhp race engine for £15k. The had done some kits for MGS&R for a roadgoing 2.0 engine but suspect none were sold. They reckon the kits would push out c 200 bhp. They could try and fit something similar to a road car themselves (now MGS&R are defunct)but that would cost over £5k. Scholar's engine produces about the same as the Judd kit but is £3.5k plus vat. Cheaper but still to expensive. DVAs top engine mod package has a claimed output of 185 plus BHP for (I think ) £3k including vat. I think I might just go for a bit of porting, and new cam shafts (the DVA 175bhp kit) and see how I get on next season. If I still have an overwhelming need for speed then I might have to go for the Scholar option!
marc h

MG SnR are not defunct Marc - they're still trading, albeit under administration. However, trying to raise anyone on the phone is a nightmare!!! They lost some key people in the run up to administration.

Hopefully when a buyer is found, they'll be able to revive this side of the business - it has a lot of potential.

Hmm - what an interesting quandary you have Marc! What would your engine building budget be? I'd be tempted to go the Judd route, if only because of its pedigree in BTCC. Plus you have an engine that ought to have more development potential: there ain't no substitute for cubes! ;o)
Rob Bell

there ain't no substitute for cubes! ;o)

Other than shedding a few pounds.......

........but then again how far would you get for £5k when:

10kg = 1.2bhp on a standard MPi
and
10kg = 1.6bhp on a Trophy 160


However, it would be interesting to have a schedule of body panel weights, naturally the big ones first, bonnet and boot (which the trophy cars already have replaced with plastic) and then put this together with some already acquired knowledge of wheel weights and ending up with the super lightweight snake eye lights and carbon gearknobs perhaps.....!!!

What is the minimum possible weight for an F. Could it hit 800kg......? if it did you could replace the badge and call it and elise....
Tim

Cheaper to buy an Elise.

And then fit a Judd 2.0 litre ;o)
Rob Bell

The top engine 'package' isn't as far as you can go, I have 230BHP+ 1800 engines and 245bhp+ 1900 engines out there in quantity, it really depends on what you want and how deep your pockets are. Outputs over 185 are normally done as bespoke builds. The 185 package usually gives more depending on installation constraints.

IMO the 2 litre is too long in the stroke. The 1900 is far cheaper to build and gives stonking results, the best so far has been 246BHP and 178lb/ft.

A good spec that produces an easy 200BHP would not be too expensive.

Dave
Dave Andrews

"A good spec that produces an easy 200BHP would not be too expensive"

Dave, tell me more!
marc h

And Dave, how's your short stroke 1800 coming along? :o)
Rob Bell

Spec. for 200BHP+, lightly ported VVC head, VVC blank kit, BP285H cams, verniers, forged pistons, TBs and airbox, Emerald and good 4-2-1 manifold. Make sure that prices you get are for fully dressed engines.

The short stroke 1800 is still being run-in, it should hit the RR soon.

Dave
Dave Andrews

I am really looking forward to hearing the results Dave :o)
Rob Bell

Dave, is the above spec your 185 bhp spec but with an air box and the 4 2 1 manifold? What do you mean by a "good" 4 2 1 manifold? Rob has used the same term and (in the nicest possible way) snorted in derision at my Janspeed 4 2 1 manifold. Whats wrong with it? Is it pants?
marc h

>What do you mean by a "good" 4 2 1 manifold?

The standard manifold is 4-2-1, but packaged for convence rather than gas flow
Will Munns

A short stroke 1.8 would be ideal. the 1.8 and the 2.0 are as DVA says long stroke, which has a number of effects on an engine, some good some not so good.

I presume the 1.8 long stroke is the 2.0 liners and pistons running the 1.6 crank?

the K series should be able to really rev too! and with careful planning and construction might even prove reliable!

makes my early 1.8 MPi sound totally weedy!

Dave please keep us all posted!

Neil

The short stroke 1800 is one of three 1700cc K series built a while back based on 80mm bore and an intermediate stroke (84.5mm) between the 1600 and 1800, these used custom DK cranks and custom rods, these were constructed to fit within the 1700cc class.

The best of these with one of my heads made just over 240BHP at 9400 , the toehr two made respectable figures in excess of 225HP.

If you combine 82mm pistons with this crank/rod combination you have a near 1800cc with a better rod ratio and rod angle together with a larger bore allowing better unshrouding of the valves. The 82.5mm pistons with stock 1600 crank gives only 1710cc. Had the 82mm conversion been available a few years ago then as 1700 would be pretty straightforward.

The ideal 4-2-1 for road use should have 31-32" primaries and 8-10" secondaries. I dont think the Janspeed manages that.

Dave
Dave Andrews

Janspeed is certainly a lot better than the nasty original manifold and down pipe, but isn't optimal - as a number of Elise guys have shown on the RR. The Piper manifold on the other hand is meant to be very good - this is the one that Mike Satur now sells.

The one I've now got is made by Dave at Powerspeed - and posses a number of features developed for the Caterham - including the long primary and secondary lengths that DVA mentions above. :o)

I had hoped to get the car on the rollers for a "Before and After" session - but the dumped coolant disaster looks as though that has put that idea to bed...

Dave - can I get you to port a cylinder head for me? Pretty please? :o)
Rob Bell

>The best of these with one of my heads made just over 240BHP at 9400

Now we are TALKING! !!
...but I am certain all this doesnt come free in Cornflakes packages! the words custom and crank together usually mean big dosh! and to get it to rev to 9400 would surely involve lots of heavy duty parts, solid lifters etc etc.

Can the standard cooling systems cope?


Neil

This thread was discussed between 14/07/2005 and 18/07/2005

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