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MG MGF Technical - 200 & 230bhp XPower K Series Engines are a comin'

At the Press event to mark the announcement of the tie up with Caterham, two new spec K Series engines were revealed, 200bhp and 230bhp.

200bhp pushes out 150 lbsft @ 5750rpm (Peak power @ 7500 rpm)
230bhp pushes out 155 lbsft @ 7200rpm (Peak power is at a rather high 8600rpm!!)

230 pushes a caterham 0-60 in 3.4 and tops out at 150mph!

As to when these would appear in MG / Rovers, no one would say (I did ask!), but in the presentation Gordon Poynter (Commerical Director, Powertrain) did say that more information on the XPower engines and how they will fit into the current MG & Rover ranges would be made available later in the year.

Roll on later this year, that's all I can say! :)


Regards


Steve.
Steve Childs

Great! As Pilots often say - can't have too much power!
Ian Walker

Ian, I know what you mean! :D Now the mention of a 230bhp engine in a TF makes sense, I assumed this was Supercharged, but any supercharged engine maywell not be a 1.8 afterall, I've heard rumours of it being the 1.6 instead (its stronger). Also heard rumours of a 1.4VVC (c130bhp) being evaluated!

Should add none of these rumors came from MGR Directly...

Looks like interesting times ahead at Powertrain! :D


Steve.
Steve Childs

Steve,

What were the engines announced at the Caterham press event? 1.6 or 1.8?

Dave
Dave

1.4 (105bhp), 1.6 (115bhp) and 1.8 (140,160,200 & 230bhp).

Steve.
Steve Childs

Did you get to have a look at the engines Steve? Could you see the supercharger installation on the 1.8 litre units?

Hmm, engine transplant, anyone? ;o)
Rob Bell

Rob, no I didn't get to look, the only R500 there was outside. But the caterham brouchure makes no mention of a supercharger in the R400 and R500 caterhams, so its reasonable to say they are not charged.


Steve.
Steve Childs

Pfff 230bhp? That much power in an engine also produces more heat you know, hmmmm what was it with MGF and heat again.......?
Bram

230BHP, in a TF? MMMM. Can I have one PLEEEEASE........

Chris.
Chris Ponder

Actually, looking at the relatively low torque peaks @ high in the rev range, it does look as though these are normally aspirated screamers. I wonder if they come with VVC heads or ported 1.8i items?

So apart from an anouncement on engines, any other news Steve? "Caterham powered by MG" perhaps?
Rob Bell

The deal also has a shared Marketing plan to it also, full details of the press relase are on http://www.mg-rover.org.

I don't know if the upper two engines are VVC or not. I did ask Rob a whole load of questions, but most, if not all of the answers were "no"! Needless to say, he isn't going to tell me anything that they haven't already told somebody else.

Steve.
Steve Childs

AFAIK, these are high lift VVC cam engines, there are plans for a Turbo in the saloon cars , no mention of it being fitted in the TF :-(
mike.
mike

Mike, that's as I understood it a while back too, but they were evaluating whether a charged TF would be launched. I hope so, even if its as a special edition to "test the water" as it were. My suspicion is that it would sell rather well! ;)

But it depends what the output of the charged motor is, I heard it was around 230bhp, if it was and MG launched a TF with the 230 XPower engine then I don't think we will see one, it would be pointless to have 2 models with the same power, one charged one not.

Would be nice to charge the 230bhp engine, but I imagine its near its limits at 230!

It still leaves a question though, the 230bhp engine can't be that far off what a charged version would generate, therefore doesn't it reduce the advantages (over the XPower 230 engine) of the charged version in any car, not just the TF? Or could it be that if they charged the 1.6 engine they could get more than 230bhp from it because its a stronger engine??? *shugs shoulders*. Time will tell I guess.


Steve.
Steve Childs

The 230 bhp engine as found in the R500 has a ported VHPD head which is basically a VVC head but with standard cam journals so that high lift cams can be fitted. It uses a steel crank and rods along with forged pistons and some very trick roller barrel throttle bodies. It is most definitely not supercharged.
Marcus

Cheers for clarifying that Marcus. Is there any potiential of charging this engine, or would it be too much for the K series to take?

(Out of mild curiosity).

Steve.
Steve Childs

Supercharged K-series have been around for ages:
http://www.turbotechnics.com/cars/elise.htm

Rob Collingridge
http://www.elises.co.uk
Rob Collingridge

Rob, I know they've been around for ages but they've been upgrades for the standard 1.8K, not the 230bhp XPower engine.

Steve.
Steve Childs

I am building one of these engines at the moment for a mate of mine and we are hoping to get more than 230bhp but I would most certainly not advise supercharging an engine that is already stretched to the limit!!

The supercharged 'K' has a much lower compression ratio and reinforced steel liners because these were becoming oval under high boost pressure and pinching the pistons with dramatic consequences!
Marcus

Irrespective of what MGRover are planning to do, I do think a charged engine of smaller capacity really would be a good bet for the TF, rather than a V6 or a screaming four with no torque low down and a 9,000 rpm redline.

Look at Audi/VW: their turbocharged 1.8 pushes out 225 bhp and about 220 lbs/ft of torque. It's as good in power and better in torque than their own 3.0 litre V6! And of course it cousumes about half as much petrol in normal driving. AND the max. torque is available from 2,000 to 5,000 revs ...

A V6 is all very well for a saloon car where you're looking for smoothness and refinement. But if you want crude power in a small car there's no match for a mad turbocharged four. The MGF/TF would be positively ballistic with anything above 200 bhp and bags of torque.
peter

The VHPD head is being redesigned, and about to be re-launched. So you could assume the 200bhp is basically a VHPD engine but with the new head type, perhaps slightly different cams and of course a new ECU.

Dont know about the 230 though.

The figures do look a lot like 200bhp = supercharged standard engine and 230 bhp = supercharged VVC engine.

Owen
Owen Geddes

20 and 230 spec engines are derivitives of the PTP spec engines, already in use in various places, at up to 10k cost. PTP is the sole official supplier of Powertrain engines to outside OE manufacturers and their main development engineer has been spending much of his time at Powertrain and the hand in hand relationship has developed further than I can say other than if you look at any official Powertrain documents they show the sales telephone number of PTP in Hinckley!!

Suffice to say that so far only naturally aspirated engine specs have been shown and as yet nothing specifically new has broken cover. However, getting into bed with Caterham allows for a very interesting avenue of allowing potential future engine specs to be first used in Caterhams which provides a shop window of what can be achieved and which is suitable may well find it's way into a future MG or Rover model.

What also has to be seriously borne in mind is that a vehicle with the ligh weight of a Caterham or an Elise can cope with engines where the torque peak is in the area some specs are developing peak power and which has power and torque dropping off the cliff below 3500rpm. The story is considerably different with a steel bodied car where the weight is between 50 and 100% more. These two engine specs are certainly not suitable for road going cars from the current MG Rover production lines.

Rog
Roger Parker

This thread was discussed between 10/04/2002 and 15/04/2002

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