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MG MGF Technical - Alternative Head Gasket Treatment

Having just had a HGF in my race car at the weekend I decided to think carefully about the HGF causes and how they manifest themselves. It seems to me that some of the failures are due to the orange seals failing. I have therefore thought about machining a small o-ring groove around each drain port and using conventional 0-rings above and below a custom made HG which would simply have holes where needed. The material of the gasket could then be copper/asbestos/copper as per older style gaskets. Has anybody here gone down that route?
Just thinking aloud and looking to bounce ideas around.........it may be daft but usually somebody will have tried almost everything before me
d mottram

On the improved gasket (Mike S) there is a magnitude of small holes where the orange seal is placed. This gives better adheision (sp?) for the seal.There is also a better oil-return. The old original one is just plain polished stainless steel with the seal on top, and one can imagine how easy that is peeled off!
Mixing metals like copper and alu is not very wise,even if the coolant is anti-corrosion and of best quality. My own wish is that the "new" K-series engine will have decked liners,i.e. the four liners are all joined at the top by a 6 to 8 mm thick plate.On top of this comes the gasket and the head.
We have to wait and see what the new engine will be like... Many iron/iron engines in the past had that type of gasket you propose with separate o-rings. Worked fine,but in those days the head had to come off anyway at regular intervals due to carbonisation ;O).
Carl Blom

I agree with Carl - and I would think that Mike's latest gasket is very similar to the very latest standard OEM gasket: these have far better location of the elastomeric orange beeding, and therefore far more resistant to failure.

Putting in one's own O-rings and having a custom gasket made seems like a somewhat radical solution - and one that I am not entirely sure will work. Certainly, it won't help guard against other modes of gasket failure - particularly failure around the fire ring...

David, rather than go the custom route, consider the new Land Rover multilayer steel gasket - this does away with the elastomeric bead althogether. There's a little more on this gasket system here: http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/engines/development_history_of_the_K.htm#The EUIV hurdle
Rob Bell

hi, when was mikes latest gasket brought out???
My car was fitted with one from ms with the steele dowells by the previous owner some 4 years ago.
This gasket has now gone (not complaning !!)
Four years is not bad i suppose for the mgf.
It had gone on one of the internal smaller seals which separates the oil and water , it was kidney shaped so you could see where the water had moved it.
the seals were indeed orange .
Thanks Mel..
m e johnson

I don't want to hi-jack this thread, but I'm in a similar situation. Unfortunately I am now looking at HGF number two. Almost exactly 20,000 ago the HG went in spectacular fashion on my F. If I remember rightly it was caused by overheating, one of the hoses from expansion tank split, emptied the coolant and overheated the engine thus HG went pop.

Two and a half years later and, having ruled out most of the other possiblities I think the head gasket is going again. For the first repair I went to my local MGR garage had the OE gasket fitted with steel dowels (I think). The strange thing is, it seems to be going very slowly almost like you've described above. It's as though one of the seals is slipping off. It started about a month and a half ago with slight coolant loss. Managed to eliminate all external leaks and car was pressure tested around 3 weeks ago and came out fine. It's plain to see that the coolant is getting in the oil, as I've seen a gradual increase in mayo on the bottom and halfway up the dipstick. It's not yet going the other way, the coolant is always clean.

So at the moment I'm not sure what to do. Probably shouldn't even be driving her, but I don't really have a choice what with work. Do you think the Mike Satur head gasket is a good move? And does anyone know the price? I've had a look around his site but can't find it.

Sorry for the monster post.

Emma Jackman (& Green with Envy ~ S369 FAR) <--- Not having a lot of luck this year :-(
Emma Jackman

I have the same problem as Emma in my Trophy 160 which would have been fitted with the updated HG and steel dowels when new in late 2001. Only 26,000 kms on the clock and I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the moment. I do a lot of short 8 km trips to work and I seem to be losing about a cup of coolant each week. The oil is showing some signs of mayo too. The B&G coolant sensor that I fitted is doing its work of late. However, all is fine when I go on a long trip as very little (if any) coolant is lost. Emma, I'll be very interested to keep abreast of how your situation develops.....
Mark Hughes

Mark,

I'll keep you in the know. Kind of nice to know that someone else in the same situation. Currently drive 6 miles each way to work so the oil only just gets a chance to warm up before I switch the engine off. No B&G sensor on mine so I just check it every morning.

Also keep me informed about yours.

Emma
Emma Jackman

D Mottram
I assume that it was your white MGF that steamed off the circuit at the All Australian Historics Winton on the October long weekend, I hope the damage wasn't too bad.
It could be an idea to fit the new Land Rover head gasket and oil rail.
These are now available from Rimmer Bros, www.rimmerbros.co.uk.
I was competing at Winton in regularity in my MGB.
Overall it was a good weekend
Leigh
Leigh Taylor

Leigh, yes that was me. My most optimistic view was that it was a HGF, but the real cause was a broken piston which destroyed the block and the head and in fact virtually everthing! I will have a rest from racing it for a while until the piggy bank allows for some forged pistons (on order). I was pulling a lot of revs when it let go so I need the forged pistons. Meanwhile I will furthe investigate the head gasket. The one on the car was the pinned elastomer type and was in excellent condition aprt from where the emerging piston damaged it!

David

PS In the meantime I will finish off my RT4 Ralt ready for the A1GP in Feb I hope.
d mottram

Hi,Emma
Mine always had a little mayo on the dipstick , which was present when i usad the mgf for the local short weekend journeys i did.
It also had always used a little water since i got the car in dec 2003. the head gasket had been done in aug 2002 by the previous owner.
i could never work out where the coolent went (about 1/4 pint every 2-3 months)
I did all the usual checks but nothing came up.
Just before my service mot it all changed rapidly.
lost 1/4 of a pint in 10- miles. What i previously thought of as mayo on the dipstick was nothing like what i now saw.....it was covered in it..no mistaking it.
before it was clean oil with a spot of mayo "separate" if you know what i mean which was probably just the usuaul we all get with short journeys. The f then emtyed its bottle in less than three miles and the oil level shot up due to the water toping it up and it looked like helmans mayo .
mine also never went the other way into the coolent bottle.
I think if it was me(help you experts!!)i would still use her for a six mile journey as where mine went on the gasket (water going into the oilways)it seemed to slowly go worse.
The thing to watch (when i had to drive the car) was that in ran very rough but did not overheat when it was dumping the water into the sump.
I had a krap time with garages as it did not "blow" steam and all to "say" hello it,s the gasket , so i,d be wary of other diagnosis which you may get.
I,ll post the full tale of why my mgf was off the road for 2 months soon....when hopefully it is back all fixed.
Try not to worry to much i,m sure it will be a straight forward fix for you if it comes to it.
The gasket was the Mike satur gasket with the steele dowels.....still went so i don,t know if it is a good move or not!!
I,m gettig the steele dowells and the mgr uprated gasket gasket so just hope this one does it for a few years.
Good luck
Mel..
m e johnson

This thread was discussed between 03/10/2006 and 16/10/2006

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