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MG MGF Technical - coolant loss

Hi
My mgf has always used a small amount of coolant (.25 litre a week). I now find I'm using a lot more than that. In the expansion tank, I've found the dreaded mayo, but there is
no water in the oil. I've taken it to a garage, who have done a pressure test on the radiator and no leaks appeared anywhere. He also did a block test and said there were no gasses getting into the water system. He said if the head had to come off, that of a matter of course, they would skim it. Would you agree with that?

As I've said, according to the mechanic, the head gasket is ok, so where is the coolant
going to? How come there is mayo in the water? And why is there no water in the oil? Another
possibility he said is that the liner(s) maybe out of true causing the water to leak. When the engine is cold, there is a certain amount of water (condensation) coming from the exhaust, but when the engine has warmed up, the exhaust seems to be ok.

Please advise.

Can you please recommend garages in the Surrey/South West London area.

Many thanks


Michelle
Michelle

Hi,

What sort of mileage do you do?

If you do short runs to and from work etc, the car never warms up enough for the condensation generated to disapate. Hence slight mayo. After a longer hotter run this should disappear.

The loss could be leakage at a joint somewhere.

Give it a good run and see what happens.

Frank
Frank Amey

Frank

I do about 100 miles a day on the motor way and in town traffic.

Michelle
Michelle

Michelle,

I don't think low mileage is your problem. Need to get an expert on the job. Come on F'ers give a hand.

Frank
Frank Amey

I'm no expert but the coolant has to be going somewhere and the presence of mayo would seem to indicate it is getting into the oil.

Water from the exhaust when cold is normal.

Further investigation required I'm afraid...

ER
Ewan Ramage

Hi Michelle,

sorry to hear of your coolant loss problems :o( The history of a prolonged period of coolant loss appears to point to their being a leak in the coolant system that the pressure test has failed to isolate.

A likely area of concern is the expansion tank cap. When coolant escapes, it often leaves a crystaline deposit in the vicinity in which it occurs: have a look around on your car.

When you mention that you've seen mayo in the coolant system, how much are we talking about? Mayo in the coolant is somewhat unusual: it's invariably water contamination in the engine oil rather than the other way around. So when you say mayo, might it be some other contamination floating in the expansion tank?

Hopefully we can exclude the possibility of a HGF here. Despite a negative pressure test, it is not 100% sensitive to all coolant system leaks. Therefore I'd want to check everything: every hose connection, every metal coolant pipe and the radiator. All these items are prone to failure as the car becomes a little older.

How old is your car Michelle?
Rob Bell

Michelle, as for water coming from the exhaust when cold this is normal and is nothing to worry about.
Mike (@home)

Wonder if it's corroded and thus porous coolant pipes under the car? They tend not to show up on test as they only let fluid seep out VERY slowly. In some cases they'll absorb some fluid when cold, this temporarily seals the porousity, then when they cool down it all dries out and evaporates, and you're back to square one.
Bit like a bath sponge swelling when it's wet then drying out.

"Can you please recommend garages in the Surrey/South West London area."

If you don't mind a thrash down the A3/A31 to Petersfield I trust my car to White Rose MGR and it's till faultless after 7 years and it just had a ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHT THOUSAND mile service.
Better than any other Rover dealer I've tried...and there's been a few.

Cannonball Bob

Michelle, Don't know how far you're actually prepared to travel, but many years ago when living in Woking, Trident, Ottershaw were good, and they've also been recommended several times on this BBS more recently.

Mike H
Mike Hall

Thank you all for your advice

The car is 4 years old and it has done 47k miles.

Michelle
michelle

Michelle, it would be worth checking the condition of the radiator then. Fingers crossed!
Rob Bell

The Radiator has been pressure tested by Felt
ham radiators. no leaks.

Michelle
michelle

OK then how about a hose underneath somewhere with a slight split in it that only opens up when it gets hot/pressurised ? :-/
Cannonball Bob

It's finally happened,

I took the car for a drive yesterday, and the temperature gauge shot up, I pulled over to a layby, let the car cool down a bit, poured in a litre of coolant and limped home.

I parked the car on the drive, and checked the oil dipstick, the oil looked like custard (I'm using unipart red 10-40w oil). My boyfriend drained the sump and the oil poured out with the coolant. We left it draining overnight, filled up with oil, new oil filter, but no coolant.

We started her up just to circulate the oil around the engine. So we have suffered the dreaded HGF.

Now my questions are-:

According to the AA,they will come to the house under the Home Start Scheme, and if they cannot get the vehicle going, they will tow to a garage up to 10 miles away. We haven't put any coolant back in the radiator for fear of contamination. Obviously when the AA person checks this, they will see it. Do you think they will honour a tow to a garage in spite of this?

There is a local Rover dealer at Hampton, Middlesex, can anybody recommend them? I will check out their prices on Tuesday.

Lastly, my friends son has a garage which tunes K series engines in Barnet, he said he will replace the gasket for me. Do you think the AA if they honour the Home Start tow will tow me over 10 miles free of charge, or would I have to contribute towards the towing costs? Or should I just look through the directories for a towing company to take me to Barnet?

Many thanks

Happy Easter

Michelle
michelle

Yeah pester the AA man. Their slogan is "Just AAsk" so it's worth a try!
Failing that hire a trailer and for a tank of petrol I'll drag it there behind the Discovery! :-)
Cannonball Bob

My F came from G. Kinsbury in Hampton. They used to be a great garage. They have let things slip a bit- but are still trust worthy. I have never had any cause to complain - other then they did not wash the car when they last services it. but they are not cheap!

If you need to move it from your home I can come over the river in the volvo and tow it a couple of miles from your home. I don't know if they will change how far they will then tow you. :-)
Steve Ratledge

Steve

Many Thanks for the towing offer,but if I use KIngsbury Rover I should be able to use the AA for this.

Michelle
Michelle

Hi all,
I see Tridant garage at Woking and the White Rose garage at Petersfield seem to get good press. Does anybody have their phone numbers handy?
Thanks
Chris
Chris Jones

Argh! Bad news Michelle. Hope that things get fixed soon.
Rob Bell

Chris

The number I have for Trident Ottershaw is: 01932 874411.
White Rose web site gives 01730 264541.

Mike H
Mike Hall

Mike.
Very many thank for the phone numbers.
Regards
Chris
Chris Jones

Michelle
Just read your tale of woe...
Modern day cars with modern day anti-freeze should not lose coolant. If they do there is a leak somewhere.
Your (hopefully ex-)dealer should have been aware of this and he should also have been aware of the head gasket problems on the F.
Water dripping from the exhuast? Well it does happen occaisionally on mostly older vehicles (due to condensation in the exhaust system in cold humid weather), but it is also indicative of coolant in the combustion chamber!
I guess this doesn't help, but it seems like your dealer wants stringing up by the b***s!
Geoff
G P Bailey

Don't tell the Droid that you've touched it, mearly that the coolant has gone and you have tried topping it up, but it pours out of the engine (this should give the droid some useful info, but not give the game away).

The Tech who visits will be a lot more understanding.

It's the AA's policy not to help you if you have done any work yourself (like draining the oil), but topping up with water is not 'work' in this sense!

Good luck
Will
Will Munns

Two points to add.
The "Honest John" column in the Daily Telegraph Saturday edition either 3 or 10 April stated that coolant loss on a "F" was through the inlet manifold.

From my recent (expensive) experience, the volume of coolant that disappeared in a 3 mile limp to my local garage makes it a sensible statement. With our "F" there was no other visible leak. The first sign of a problem was an engine stall when stopped at a junction. The temp. gauge was hard on the "H" and it took several pints to top up after a cooling down delay.

After a head skim, cam belt change, replacement plugs, distributor (cracked), the gasket set (£74 + VAT), oil and filter all seems OK so far.
Paul L

>> The "Honest John" column in the Daily Telegraph Saturday edition either 3 or 10 April stated that coolant loss on a "F" was through the inlet manifold. <<

He's not wrong: this applied to early 1.8MPis which used the green coloured inlet manifold gaskets. Unfortunately the go brittle with age and crack. These have since been superceeded by a new black coloured gasket that seems to have solved this problem nearly completely :o)
Rob Bell

Michelle

The nearest main dealer to you is Kingsbury in Hampton where I bought my first "F"; and who had the HGF fixed on that satisfactorily (under warranty) when it went after just 7,000 miles!

Trident of Ottershaw are the next nearest (and where my TF is having its second year service today). I've not used them for anything else other than a normal service but they have a perfectly adequate reputation.
John

black/green the wrong way around Rob - New gasket is green.
Will Munns

This thread was discussed between 03/04/2004 and 14/04/2004

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