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MG MGF Technical - End of the road

Today my MGF VVC goes back to MG Cars, and I step away from MG owwnership. The reasonS:

Poor build quality, e.g. windows and carpets that don't fit, brakes that do not inspire confidence and the final straw - a head gasket failure at just 16,000 miles.

Add to this the poor standard of technical support afforded by my local garages and indifferent attitude from MG Customer services.

I bought the car in Jan 2000 with all the goodies intending to keep it forever but to be frank, it has been a disappointment - particularly this year wth all the mechanical problems, and the inability of MG technicians to resolve issues - and indeed making things worse! As the end of the warranty period fast approaches and confidence has gone in the car, it is bye bye V3 VVC. Good luck to all of you who remain with the cars - I feel for you.
Brad

Sorry to see you go,but can understand how you must be feeling, i don't suppose writing to MG would do much either, i hope you don't get same problem with your local garages with your next choice of car also,time will tell on that one,good luck , Dave T6 DCM
DC MORRIS

Brad

Your disapointment is understandable but please do not 'feel for us'.

After almost seven years of brilliant fun filled and trouble free MGF ownership I am the one that is feeling for you!

However that does not excuse poor customer relationship from either the dealer or MGR.

Good luck with what ever you buy.

Ted
Ted Newman

All cars get problems. Some more than others. But all get them.

I know of two hated TTs, one traded in in disgust and the other replaced FOC by Audi it was so bad.
I know of multiple problems with the new Mini - I have one and it's got more faults than my 'F ever had.
Big new beemer across the road has been left on the garage forecourt in disgust now.
etc.

Can't help with customer service other than to say vote with your feet. ie. New dealer or new car.

Oh well... :-)
Paul Nothard

I didn't think Minis would be so problematic under BMW company!

I mean I had so many litte different troubles with my F... but luckily there has been a fix for each problem so far. :-)

German made... always thought it was bullet proof!

Hanah Kim

Hanah
you say the new MINI is German built? it is not!!!!
It is built in the old Cowley plant of the BL/Rover Group factory, which is in Oxford. Whilst I admit that the 'lines' are using German techniques they are still British built, with some items coming from other countries, like the engine.
Have a look at the MINI forum and you'll see the problems owners are having with the car.
God, I wish I was still in NZ!!! how I envy you out there :-)
Cecil Kimber

Does anyone at MGR ever browse this site I wonder? This is not the first thread like this but nothing ever changes.
Although I like my car, it would have been got rid of long ago had it been financially viable to do so. I have had all the problems listed by Brad plus alot more besides and whilst I accept anything mechanical can go wrong, what disappoints and disillusions me most is the complete and total dismissal by Rover that the car is anything to do with them in any way shape or form. To say Rover executive management is arrogant and conceited doesn't even come close. And their "Customer Helpline" is simply useless, staffed by complete buffoons trained by Rover to repeat the phrase "That is an issue for your dealer to resolve". Every time I raise ANY problem with them, they always look for a way to shed the blame first instead of looking for a way to help the customer.
One letter sent by them in response to threatened court action by me simply stated
"Your experience is not indicative of the majority of our customers"
Oh, that makes it all ok then.
On another, occasion having been told "We do NOT exchange cars. It is not company policy", I sent them case files with details of four owners who had cars replaced FOC. MGR's reponse was to simply deny this ever took place. Now I can't quite decide if this is arrogance or stubborness or a mixture of the two.
Just to really make my day and to demonstrate just how much they appreciate customer loyalty, I was offered a staggering £500 "discount" (off a new car at full list price only) if I traded my car in.
Small snag.
With a knackered head gasket at the time, the dealer offered virtually auction-level trade value. Luckily the dealer in question (who has since dumped the MGR franchise) was equally unimpressed by MGR and pointed out to them that at dealer level he could offer me twice that discount before we even got to the bartering stage. (Phone then went dead)
All I can say is well done to BMW for ditching such a laughably ignorant gaggle of incompetent clowns, and not so well done to HM Govt for continually bailing out the same bunch of clowns.

Rover, how many Fs in "Customer Care"?

Rant off. And......relax.
Bob

I to have often wondered if MGR looks on here,probably some do,and then forget about it, "as not my problem syndrome",it is a great shame that they are not more interactive with the likes of us on here,we are after all their bread and butter customers,if they do not listen to our views good or bad then for a lot of MG ownwers and ex owners then there will only be more Brads and Bobs to add to a ever growing list of unhappy customers,and that is what we are MGR Customers. Rant off and Relax also. Dave
DC MORRIS

Bob, I wholeheartedly agree and I'm speaking as a Customer Support Executive for a blue chip multinational.

My experience:-

 Poor quality / reliability – my 2001 MGF 22 faults and 11 dealer visits, my 2002 TF several dealer visits, exhaust blowing at 6000mls.
 Varied experience of 3 main dealerships
 Poor parts supply – TF 59 days OTR, Exhaust 8 working days to arrive; sensor still outstanding.
 Outrageously dismissive and unhelpful Customer service line at MGR - I could write a treatise of my experience of that 'service'
 Poor re-sales – TF trade-in values dire. Widespread discounting hitting residuals. TF160 6000mls £14k5!!!

Also,

 Misreading / valuing the (enthusiastic) customer base – unbelievable slowness to ‘hook’ and mutually exploit MGOC, MGCC, several BBS etc.
 Internet site, slow, clumsy and less information than the brochures - They already have stacks of info, press data, photo’s and technical information why not use it?

MGR must stick to the basics of 'quality and service' from a customer experience perspective and passionately get them right. There is no other way for business success. Period.
Ian Walker

Yawn - yawn - the same old people banging on endlessly about their pet whinges..... I hate to disillusion you guys, but it's not just MGR who seem not to care, we don't either...
David

Hay Cecil!
I have no idea what your doing in Holland but seeing you making a comment in every post about it.... Whats so bad about being in the NL?
Bram

Bram

It is only in the NL in Amsterdams Magic Cafes that you see the ghost of poor old Cecil Kimber and of course his fellow vistims - something to do with the cloud of smoke:-)


Ted

Ted Newman

>>God, I wish I was still in NZ!!! how I envy you out there :-)

Hi Cecil! thanks for the information. When did you visit NZ last time? ;-D
Just curious...
I want to visit Netherlands... it sounds like a very nice place.. i haven't been to europe yet.. *sob*
nor any of the MG meetings happpening all the time there..
Hanah Kim

By way of balancing up the debate a bit, at least from the dealers point of view, I thought I'd add my experiences.

I've have the "traditional" MGF problems - HGF failure at 24000 miles, rear light failure due to boot hinge cutting cable and the car pulling to the left under braking.

My dealer, who are Crawley Down MG, replaced the head gasket on the same day that it failed. They also repaired the cable in the boot while I waited and 4 wheel tracked the car the day after I complained about the brakes.

Perhaps I've been lucky - and I still wouldn't swap the car (or the dealer!) for anything.

Ken
Ken Soper

Ted, what about Utrecht's Magic Cafe's?

Customer service is very much left to the dealers in the motor industry which means it is very important to be lucky enough to get a good dealer who will act as your advocate when negotiating with MGR. Unfortunately most of the MGR dealerships never quite recovered from having to sell really crap cars up to the mid 80s. I feel this caused many dealers to become neglegent when it comes to customer care.

People can dismiss this as moaning and complaining but it really is a problem with many dealers, I have been calling for many years for MGR to pull their finger out and crack down on useless dealers and insist on a decent customer support system. Until this happens they will never be able to compete in the market with manufacturers who consider the customer as important to their business.
Tony

Folks,

This seems to come up fairly regularly and suspect my response is equally predictable.

The contractual relationship (in law) is between you and the dealer. You are just wasting your own time contacting MGR direct.

If you are spending big bucks on a car then I would suggest ensuring you have a good dealer is your top priority before parting with any of the folding stuff.

It is entirely possible for the F to provide reliable transport as so many have testified here.

If you want a sob story, looking in the Motoring Section of last Saturday's Daily Telegraph. Some chap whinging on about how his new S class Merc had been ON the road for 58 days out of the last year. He was so certain that buying 70k of Merc would be cost justified by the high reliability over 4 years and high mileage.....

Cheers

Patrick
Patrick Beet

>The contractual relationship (in law) is between you and the dealer. You are just wasting your own time contacting MGR direct.

Unless it has changed the first year of the waranty used to be an MGR waranty, it was only the extra two years that were dealer waranties. So yes, your purchase agreement is with the dealer but manufactuting faults are an MGR problem and it is MGR who have to foot the bill for claims. This is why it is important to have a dealer who will look after their customers and fight in your corner in the case of a manufaturing fault.

When you buy a toster it is often the shops responsibility only for a limited time in accordance with your statutary rights, after that it is manufacturer that handle waranty claims and not the shop who sold you it.

Contacting MGR directly is good in that a problem is noted and with any luck a decent manufacturer makes changes if they receive enough complaints. In an ideal world I would expect the dealer to do all of this for me so I should not have to contact MGR directly. In reality many dealers don't seem to care that much so if you want something done you have no choice but to go to MGR directly. If this does any good or not is a different story.
T.E.D.

Tony

You are getting mixed up with what is law (in the UK) and what the manufacturer takes on!

Under the Sale of Goods acts (in the UK) as Patrick says your contract is with the person/company that sells you the item.

Ted
Ted Newman

Tony,

I was trying to get everyone to recognise that the dealer is legally the "owner" of the relationship. The majority of car manufacturers are geared only to deliver through dealers and any complaints direct to the manufacturer will just be treated as "background noise" and indicate that the dealer is not doing his job! If the dealer does not fix your problems then you are stuffed!

I suspect that too many dealers have been with MGR and their many predecessors and are therefore used to failure. Being very harsh, perhaps they are only left with the least dynamic. From a commercial perspective, which would you rather have run over the last 10 years, a Rover dealership or a BMW one!

I am so old I can remember when BMC had near 50% of the UK market for cars! They now have around 4%. I know my dealer has been with them since the 1930s..... Clearly MGR need to get good service out of the dealers and develop a business where companies want to sell the product. Once you get to this state then you can start being hard on the poor ones! Until that happy day arrives I suspect MGR needs to be nice to every boozy who is prepare to have he cars in their showroom.

Good dealers do exist and it is important that we reward them with our business!

Here endth my pontification!

Cheers

Patrick

PS Hope you ill be trading in the escort for a TF shortly!
Patrick Beet

@ Tony, take care on the Ford that it doesn't fall apart soon.
My Fiesta (fiasco) is down now since 4 weeks !! Huge repair invoice on the engine estimated. :( Diesel pump gone already after 100.000 mls !!

Thanks, I have the reliabable MGF for all day use.
Most important: *Forget the dealerships if you haven't any good nearby and DIY*

Regards
Dieter
Dieter K.

Dear all,

Thank you for your kind words and comments. I will miss driving an MG after 6 years of MG ownership, running firstly an 18i then the VVC, but needs must and life goes on.

I accept Ted's admonition about my "I feel for you" comment - I wish you all many years of happy "air in your hair motoring.

Best Regards

Brad
Brad

Brad

Good luck and thanks for the wishes - I have grown a beard so that I can comply:-)

Ted
Ted Newman

Ted, sorry, I thought that was what I said....??? :-)

>If the dealer does not fix your problems then you are stuffed!

I agree with that, the only time I ever got MGR to deal with anything was after the dealer had acted as my advocate. As I say, the dealer fixes the problem but the cost is billed by them to MGR. For example MGR pay for an HGF under warranty, it is just that to get anwhere a dealer has to initiate the claim or you are just ignored. So, yes I suppose I agree that calling MGR directly could be seen as a waste of time apart from getting your problem entered into the system (if your lucky).

To be honest they must listen, otherwise they would never try to make improvements or fix problems. On the other hand if a particular problem is costing them a lot of money then I suppose it is in their own interest to solve some problems.
T.E.D.

Where it's a build-quality or design fault issue, MGR are liable as the manufacturer.
And what about if the vending dealer cuts all links with Rover due to being treated as badly as the customers?!
Bob

Hmmm, liable or responsible? I would agree that MGR are responsible if it is a design or manufacturing fault, but you (as the customer) have a contract with the dealership, not MGR.

Therefore, from the customer's point of view, only the dealership is liable.

From a dealership point of view MGR are liable.

MGR therefore are NOT liable to the customer, only to the dealership. This is IMO the cause of the poor customer service from MGR. The fact is, we, as the buying public are not MGR customers, we are MG dealership customers.

If you buy a car from Dealer X, you are a customer of Dealer X, your contract is with them. They made you an OFFER, you ACCEPTED and paid CONSIDERATION to Dealer X. If the drill is faulty, Dealer X is liable under the sale of good act (not merchantable quality, where Dealer X is the merchants), regardless of what the actual fault is or the origins thereof.

So, you claim from the dealer as your contract is with them.

The dealer claims from MGR as thier contract is with them.

SF <--- Doing Contract Studies at College!
Scarlet Fever

So Andy, what you're saying is, in layman's terms, MGR have added a clever non-return valve in the whole buying process?
I assume other manufacturers do the same but just co-operate more with their dealers to bolster the overall brand image.
Bob

Ok so somewhere along the line the dealer screws up and turns your car into a drill and you cannot do diddly ;-)
Paul

>>>what you're saying is, in layman's terms, MGR have added a clever non-return valve in the whole buying process?
===NO - that is not true. It is the law of the land, NOT something done by MGR.
David

I would imagine if one of these quality or design problems causes injury or loss you would of course be free to take MGR to court. I am sure that by law MGR do have some responsibility to the customer but the discussion is how much.

I know for a fact that my original one year warranty was a Rover Warranty which is a direct agreement between the customer and Rover. They may have changed this by now to an underwritten dealer based warranty, I'm sure the extended two years warranty was on a similar basis.

I think that the dealer makes a claim to MGR for any warranty based costs with the original warranty so in this way Andy is correct, the only thing I'm not sure of are the details of the warranty currently given with an MG.

Calling MGR directly is a waste of time if you want anything done about your particular problem but simply logging any problems you have with them does seem to filter through to newer models eventually. Many of the things we have complained about have been fixed pretty much how we wanted them. The only problem being I can't afford a new one any more so I won't get the benefits.
T.E.D.

No car is exempt!
I had an MGF 1.8mpi for 6 months, and had a couple of problems - one of which occured within 1/2 hour of collecting if (brand new) from the dealer, and left it stranded in the road unable to start. Another problem with it was the reverse gear selection failure, which left me stuck nose to nose with an MX5, unable to reverse (nightmare). However, both were fixed immediately by the dealer. I loved the car, but swapped it for an MGF Trophy 160. This had one or two little niggles, but never let me down. When I moved house and job last August, I gave up my company car (which was a 1st car) I had to sell the MGF, as a combination of 600 miles/week, and need for a 4 seater car meant it wasn't practical as my only vehicle. I was heartbroken. I went to the Ford dealer and bought a brand new Ford Mondeo 2.0td Ghia X. Not as much fun as an MGF, but, I thought, no problems with build quality and reliability.
Oh...how wrong!
Give me back the MGF any day as regards build quality and relaibility!!! The Mondeo had a faulty 3rd brake light and housing coming away from rear window (fixed after 1 week, although dealer questioned validity of warranty as item was trim), misfire at low revs (fixed after dealer visit), faulty left/right indicator relay (waiting fix), faulty instrument panel illumination (constantly flickering - awaiting fix), totally inaccurate fuel/trip computer (awaiting fix), poor trim quality (wing mirror housing coming away from car - awaiting fix), missing badges on one side of car (dealer refused to fix - "they must have been stolen - £25 to replace"), faulty central locking (although this seems to have healed itself), damaged leather on rear seats (fixed), dodgy climate control (fan works sometimes, not others, awaiting fix).
This from Ford "designed for living, engineered to last". Eh! If this is what happens in 2 months, exactly how long is this car engineered to last? £22,000 it costs new. Compared to the Mondeo, the MGF's were fantastically relaible and dealers excellent. I cant wait to trade in the Mondeo and get a new MG in April!
Cheers
Paul
Paul

Well spotted Paul! :-)

>> Ok so somewhere along the line the dealer screws up and turns your car into a drill and you cannot do diddly ;-) <<

I originally wrote an example based on someone buying a drill from B+Q, but then thought better of it an re-wrote it on the fly, changing 'drill' to 'car' and 'B+Q' to 'Dealer X' - looks like i missed one! :-)

Not sure how the warrantee factors into this, i suspect they are a separate company who offer MGR an insurance against faults. MGR claim thier money back against this policy and the warrantee company puts up thier premium to suit. Certainly if i were MGR, this is the way i would go about it.

SF
SF

I had my car replaced by MG only to find out that the second one is worse than the first one. Good job your getting your money back (they offered me 10 grand less than I paid for it, to buy it back). I've bought a cheep Jap car for the daily commute and it's never had anything wrong with it. If only MG could get to that standard.

Also, MG have deemed to not have any form of customer services now, you go through the dealer. I've been waiting for my hood to be fixed since April this year.

Good luck with whatever car you buy
Keith

>but, I thought, no problems with build quality and reliability.

With a Ford? Come on now. Vauxhall, Ford & MGR are the cheap and cheerful end of the mass produced market complete with monkeys to do the servicing. The only people with a worse record are maybe Fiat.
T.E.D.

This thread was discussed between 26/10/2002 and 05/11/2002

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