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MG MGF Technical - Exhaust mounting bolt sheared - ideas?
| The SP Supersports exhaust on my '96 VVC has started making an annoying buzzing/rattle - badly when cold, less so when hot. It's most pronounced around 2000rpm but is very noticeable (in the car with the windows open) at idle when cold. The lightest of finger pressure on either tailpipe silences the noise, so I had a look at the mountings. All are solid and don't rattle or move when prodded, but one of the 2 captive bolts on the adjustable end of the exhaust looks to have sheared off. I assume this is the source of the buzzing noise, but how on earth can I fix it? I don't fancy taking the exhaust off, cutting the bracket and rewelding! :-O There's a photo here: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tim.jenner/images/MGF/bracket.jpg I'm open to ideas! Cheers, Tim. |
| Tim Jenner |
| I think this one should not be the *true* problem. (IMO) See for the flexi-pipe. Or add the manifold/down pipe support bracket. http://www.mgfcar.de/exhaust_bracket/index.htm Regards Dieter |
| Dieter K. |
| I've got the same bolt sheared off !!! but mine isn't making any strange noises (and I haven't such a nice picture of it ;o). Check the strap around the exhaust that is attached to the catalyst convertor. When mine was broken, it caused an unpleasent rattle when cold. The flexi-pipe is very prone, but don't think that will be an issue as the sound stops when touching one of the exhaust finishers. |
| Erik |
| Could be the flexipipe as Dieter suggests :o( Visual inspection of this item usually gives a good clue as to its condition... |
| Rob Bell |
| Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Do we think the sheared bolt is a bit of a red herring then? I will try to have a look and get a photo of the flexipipe if the rain holds off...but then why would touching the tailpipes stop the noise?? Cheers, Tim. |
| Tim Jenner |
| >> Do we think the sheared bolt is a bit of a red herring then? ... but then why would touching the tailpipes stop the noise??<< I'm not sure that this is a red herring, as you wouldn't expect the rattle from a damaged flexipipe to go away when touching the tail pipes. It might (the SP system is precariously balanced, and puts more strain on the cat mounting than most other systems). Just to muddy the water, another noise that eminates from this area is from the heat shield, which can tear and vibrate. Doesn't tend to go when the exhaust gets warm though - but it is something that is easy to inspect for. |
| Rob Bell |
| The rain stopped just long enough for me to get a couple of photos of the flexipipe, I'd appreciate it if anyone could have a look and see what they think! http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tim.jenner/images/MGF/Flexipipe_right.JPG and http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tim.jenner/images/MGF/Flexipipe_left.JPG Looks OK to my untrained eye! I also had a look at the heat shield and it also seems solid and doesn't move. The noise is more buzzy than I'd expect from a rattly exhaust requiring the fitting of the manifold support bracket... Perhaps it would be worth trying to jam something between the bracket and the exhaust near the broken stud just to prove or disprove the source? If so, any ideas what to use!? There's very little gap to fit anything in. Thanks again, Tim. |
| Tim Jenner |
| Very clear photos - looks fine to me Tim. |
| Dave |
| Forgot to add, the strap is still in place and is firmly fixed. Erik - interesting that you say you have the same bolt broken, is this a common thing on the SP exhausts? Cheers, Tim |
| Tim Jenner |
| Tim, the flexi pipe appears to be in perfect condition - but what on earth are those two wire ties for? I've never seen a flexipipe 'treated' in this way before. So this moves the rattle/vibration to either the exhaust itself or the heat shield above it. >>Perhaps it would be worth trying to jam something between the bracket and the exhaust near the broken stud just to prove or disprove the source? If so, any ideas what to use!? There's very little gap to fit anything in.<< If you don't plan to leave anything there for too long, a bit of card would be okay (takes a while for the surface temperature of the silencer box to increase) - but clearly this is not a long term solution!!! You could try some aluminium baking foil? |
| Rob Bell |
| I've no idea what the ties are, I assumed they were normal! I'll try a bit of card just to see if the noise stops - if it does I'll try the foil as a potentially longer term solution. I guess I could just put a small weld across the broken bolt and the bracket to stop it moving...? As an aside, Rob, did you ever get your EPC working? Cheers, Tim. |
| Tim Jenner |
| I haven't had time since we chatted about that Tim. I suspect that renaming the file should do the trick. Was planning on trying that last night, but was beaten to the computer by Yimmy - d'oh! ;o) Yup, I reckon a small weld should do the trick WRT the exhaust - once you're happy with the bracket's position, there wouldn't be that many reasons to later change it... |
| Rob Bell |
| Sigh. Just tried a bit of card between the bracket and the exhaust and it didn't make any difference. :( The heat shield is solid so I'm at a bit of a loss! It almost sounds like a baffle gone in the silencer box, but from what I've read on here that just makes the exhaust louder? Perhaps I could borrow your ear at the South East F'ers meet on Wednesday if you make it, Rob? :) Tim. |
| Tim Jenner |
| >>It almost sounds like a baffle gone in the silencer box, but from what I've read on here that just makes the exhaust louder? << Oh, that's what must have happened to my SP exhaust aswell... Now it's noticeably louder than it was when I fitted it. I wonder if I could "open" it and have it re-welded inside and outside... |
| Fabrice |
| >I wonder if I could "open" it and have it re-welded inside and outside... Mate, forget opening it ;) I think it rusts away inside. Some rattle here some there over the time coming and going. Done now 75k km with an early one and it got damn loud :))))) I took pictures recently but didn't host until now. *Mine looks from outside like if it starts to *implode* from vacuum. Strange dents at the side walls and the usual big dent from below. The inner walls seam to get bigger. Anyway, I look for the pix and get back. CU Dieter |
| Dieter K. |
| Tim, the problem does seem to be a secondary resonance. A baffle is certainly a potential problem, but it is difficult to be sure. Roger Parker cut his SP system open - pix @ http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/e_introduction.htm I seem to recall that Carl (?) opened his standard exhaust and closed it up again (info in the archives I think) - so it is possible. But probably not easy. I thought that Milltek exhausts came with life-time warranties? Tim, fixed the date problem on the EPC. That's the good news. Bad news is that the login name still doesn't work. I've begun to wonder whether it is because I am using IE6.0? |
| Rob Bell |
| I'd heard something about a lifetime warranty too... The previous owner had the exhaust put on (supply and fit) by his local MGR dealer. I have the invoice from them, but that's the only documentation I've got - anyone know anything about the warranty? As for your EPC, Rob, I think I'm on IE6 at home as well but I'll check tonight. |
| Tim Jenner |
| Thanks Tim. The java script sends the login as a cookie - so I wondered whether the problem was with the security handling of cookies. But even with the security set at it's lowest level (to allow all cookies) the flippin' thing STILL doesn't work. Sometimes I hate computers. |
| Rob Bell |
| According to the invoice I have, my exhaust was supplied and fitted (and fitting was free of charge, believe it or not) by an MGR dealer 4 years ago. The car has since done 20,000 miles - that doesn't seem a lot for an exhaust (and they weren't lots of short journeys, they were a few long ones). How many miles do others get before the baffles start to disappear? Rob, yes I'm running IE6 as well so that rules that out as a problem! I've just had another look at the installation notes and the username should be "ADMIN", all in capitals. |
| Tim Jenner |
| >>How many miles do others get before the baffles start to disappear?<< From some folks experience, within 20k miles... 8oO Look at Roger's pictures, and you'll see how much baffle material was left inside his SP. None at all. I can't remember how miles he did on that system, but it would be somewhere in the ball park of 20k I think. Hmm, so IE6 is not the problem. ARRGHH! And yup, tried all combinations of capitals and lowercase. None work. No idea why not... Answers on a postcard to the usual address please... |
| Rob Bell |
| I've done roughly 22000 miles since I fitted my SP exhaust a little more than 3 years ago. It has never been quiet... but I'd say it's really louder for 6 months, but I suspect my blocked cat (replaced since) is maybe responsible of that alteration of my SP exhaust... As a ("scientific" :) clue, I have had a strange experience... Last week, with my MTB (mountain bike, not multi-throttle bodies !) on my bikerack, I had a 40km journey (I have to confess I wasn't really slooow !). Arriving at the place of the MTB event, I discovered with horror that my (MTB) front tyre was flat... not only flat, but melted ! It's the first time that this occurs... and I've carried my bikes on my F for thousands of miles before. So, this confirms one thing : the exhaust is "less restrictive" inside, the fumes are coming out with a higher speed and higher temperature. A cat bypass is in the boot and waiting to be fitted... but I'm a bit doubtful about the decibels after !! If someone have info on how to open, reweld, etc. a stainless steel exhaust, it will be greatly appreciated |
| Fabrice |
| http://www.mgfcar.de/auspuff/carl_exhaust.htm The mentioned opened original exhaust *by Carl*. |
| Dieter K. |
| The exhaust noise doesn't bother me (in fact, I like it!) but the rattle does. If it's dry tomorrow I will try to get under the car and have a proper poke and prod when the engine's cold - it rattles almost all the time then, so it should be easier to locate the source I hope! Rob, do you think you'll make Wednesday? If so I'll bring a copy of my EPC for you to try. |
| Tim Jenner |
| I've got the same problem with my EPC guys, it says the date has expired?? Any ideas if you get yours working would be much appreciated. Thanks, Ian PS Sorry for hijacking the thread, good luck with your exhaust :-) |
| Ian |
| Hopefully the rattle is not eminating from inside the silencer box Tim. It really is surprising that it goes when you merely touch the tail pipes, so this suggests that something is rattling against the silencer, rather than anything inside it. >>Rob, do you think you'll make Wednesday? If so I'll bring a copy of my EPC for you to try.<< I'm going to try Tim - will let you know on Wednesday when I have a better idea what I'm doing that evening (long story...) |
| Rob Bell |
| >So, this confirms one thing : the exhaust is "less restrictive" inside, the fumes are coming out with a higher speed and higher temperature. Yeah, good point on the strange deformations at my SP ! http://www.mgfcar.de/exhaust_milltek (scroll to the bottom. big pix) I have added the metal catalyst one year ago. 'less restrictive', but not so open as the bypass pipe. Hmmm ?? Is it possible gases path through quicker and get more heat with the 200 cells metal catalyst ? This would explain deformations special on the right hand outlet. Anyone else out there with free flow exhaust *and* metal catalyst ? |
| Dieter K. |
| I have the same deformations as you, Dieter! See: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tim.jenner/images/MGF/SP_box_left.JPG and http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tim.jenner/images/MGF/SP_box_right.JPG I also got under it and had a good prod whilst the engine was completely cold this morning. The buzzing-rattle stops with FIRM finger pressure on either tail pipe, or with a firm hand grip around the right hand exhaust pipe (just after it comes out of the silencer box). After only 1 minute or so the noise becomes a little quieter and much easier to stop (light finger pressure, as I said before). It seems to be coming from the right hand side but it's difficult to tell! I'm now not so convinced it's an external rattle but more likely something inside the box...could something have come loose? Looking at the cutaway photos there really isn't much to rattle around! Thanks, Tim. PS. Ian, you have email! |
| Tim Jenner |
| Tim, this is SP paranoia ;) I see your dents are much larger then mine. Funny (or not) the left hand side looks really bad crumpled ;) I think we have it. The rattle is for sure any loose part inside of the exhaust. I think we should see for a replacement from Mr S ? How much have you done with it since 96 ? By coincidence, another proud german Milltek owner found a terribly smell yesterday with his car. Subject seams the SP. LOL.... obviously any small animal crept into it and sadly went away... now slowly smelling off ... :) Cheers Dieter |
| Dieter K. |
| I don't think whatever is rattling inside my exhaust is an animal! :) The car's done about 48,000 miles since it was new in December 1996 and the exhaust was put on 22,000 miles and 3 years ago. Do these definitely have a "lifetime guarantee" then? Cheers, Tim. |
| Tim Jenner |
| >>Do these definitely have a "lifetime guarantee" then?<< Yes, apparantly they do - but they only apply to the original purchasor (IIRC there was a thread some while back regarding this 'guarantee' and the SP exhaust system). Worth pursuing. Will be harder if there is no proof of purchase though :o( |
| Rob Bell |
| Hmm...I have proof of purchase in the form of an invoice from an MGR dealer for supply and fit. Anyone know how to pursue this? Cheers, Tim. |
| Tim Jenner |
| Try contacting Milltek direct - http://www.milltek.co.uk/ |
| Rob Bell |
| Keep us posted, Tim ! If you succeed, this will be a case of jurisprudence ;o) |
| Fabrice |
| >If you succeed, this will be a case of jurisprudence ;o) LOL ...., with you ;) Though I'd like to try anything different then. BTW, the painful smell of the SP mentioned above seams to be a problem with the lambda sensor. Reset of ECU at dealership testbook seams to having solved the *problem* at Mani's car currently. |
| Dieter K. |
| >>> the painful smell of the SP mentioned above seams to be a problem with the lambda sensor. <<< That small animal went the wrong direction!! Some smart advice, remove a spark plug during the night so it could leave the system ;o) Will check my SP/Milltek soon. |
| Erik |
| I've emailed Milltek (thanks for the link, Rob) and will let you know if I get anywhere. Cheers, Tim. |
| Tim Jenner |
| Exhaust is (as seen from the outside) still in a good shape (except the bolt). If it wasn't, I would think about claming the lifetime guarantee. |
| Erik |
| Oddly, my exhaust seems to have stopped making the noise! Possibly whatever was loose inside has been thrown out of the back. In the meantime, I received a reply from Miltek: "Hi Further to your e-mail to Dave Marshall with regard to the problems you are experiencing with your MGF Supersports Exhaust. To enable us to deal with your claim quickly and efficiently we will require a copy of the original invoice for the exhaust that states you are the original owner, and the faulty part back. On receipt of both of these we will inspect the faulty part and under our guarantee will repair or replace. We try to deal with any warranty claims within 24-48 hours. The replacement/repaired part will then be despatched back to the address you have provided by our carrier Interlink. Please ensure when sending your part back you have included a contact telephone number and return address." I'm not the original owner so unfortunately I'm a bit stuck - but for those of you who are having problems, it looks like Miltek are willing to honour SP warranties and seem surprisingly quick and reasonable. Cheers, Tim. |
| Tim Jenner |
| Sorry to hear the 'original owner' clause Tim. It's clever, because the company will probably reason that most owners will not keep their car more than 3 or 4 years, whereafter the guarantee becomes void... :o( Having said that, great to hear that the company ARE willing and happy to honour their guarantee with original owners - of which there are a fair number populating these boards! :o) So what's your next step Tim? I reckon you should investigate further: remove the exhaust, and see if you can replicate the rattle off the car... |
| Rob Bell |
| Yep, the original owner thing is annoying. If I were less honest, though, how would they know I wasn't the original owner?! Next step for me is, I think, leave it and see how it goes. The rattle has gone (touch wood) and it now sounds just like it did when I bought it! I'd be intriguied to find out what the culprit was - but removing the exhaust when it's working fine isn't my idea of fun! :) Cheers, Tim. |
| Tim Jenner |
This thread was discussed between 01/07/2003 and 16/07/2003
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