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MG MGF Technical - Gear Trouble

Hi all, any help here would be off great use... to avoid any confusion I'll start from the start......

I own an MGF VVC 97 called Emma.

Cam belt snapped. ON MY WAY TO THE GARAGE TO GET IT CHANGED. Great. A mate of mine ( owns a performance ford garage ) fixed the cam belt/damaged head etc for me. Because it was mates rates it took about 4 weeks.

Got the car back, and was told to take it easy for a couple of days, which i duly did. after about 5 days a Type R Civic was annoying me so i booted it at the lights and ...... SNAP!!!! CLUNK!!!! No 2nd gear! Gear change cable had snapped. Limped home in 3rd.

Took on the job of gear change cable replacement myself. After a couple of saturady afternoons it was back on the road. So i took it for a test spin..... fine for 10 minutes then i started having trouble selecting 2nd and 4th. The gear shifter started having trouble moving down. then i couldn;t slecet them at all, the gear lever would just not go down enough to engage the gears. So i'm driving hime and it cures its self, suddenly i have all 5 geras back. This has continued for about 3 weeks. Sometimes i have all my gears, sometimes only the 1,3 and 5. The "change" between having them and not seems to be when i stretcha gear too much, ie 7,000 revs in 1st will mean i have killed 2nd and 4th gear for a while, ( not to mention reverese!!!!! ).

I dont think the problem was caused by the gear cable change, in fact my thinking is that the cable snapping was because 2nd gear woudlnt engage and because i was changing gear quickly the cable just snapped. So i think the cable snapping was a sympton of the problem i have now.... :((((((

Some advice on how to fix this would be deeply useful!!! And anyone who simply wants to laugh at my misfortune just remember..... your MGF will also start falling apart at 60K!!!!

Garry
Garry

Have you checked the oil level, it might make it difficult to change gear, It's possible that when you throw the gearbox round at full wack that you coat the inside of the box, and you get your normal feel back when it has drained back down.

Does it whine?
Will Munns

>>Some advice on how to fix this would be deeply useful!!! And anyone who simply wants to laugh at my misfortune just remember..... your MGF will also start falling apart at 60K!!!!<<

No one here would ever laugh at your misfortune Garry.Jeepers, you've had it bad recently haven't you???! Happily, not all F's fall apart at 60k, although that knowledge is of help to you! :o§

The gear selection problem is a weird one. Not come across this before. The rear mechanism is so simple, that I very much doubt that this is causing a problem. Which leaves the cable runs to the selector mechanism/lever. Valter is probably in the best position to help out here, but I wonder if the inner cable is getting kinked inside the outer some where along its run?
Rob Bell

I haven;t checked the oil. I confess to knowing something about engines, NOTHING about gearboxes. where do i check the oil and where can i fill it up?
Garry

Surely if an oil level problem (a) the gearbox would get obviously audible and (b) would effect the selection of all forward (and reverse) gears?
Rob Bell

Now your askin...
there is a plug on the gearbox, pictures on dieters site, fill with oil till it starts comming out the plug, this is the level.
Will Munns

Rob,
OK, i'm looking for something that would be diffrent after a good thrash, cluch would be the same, or at least I can't think of any diffrence, is the selector shaft for 2/4 on the top of the box?

Could the cables be too loose (therfore not getting tight enough to select before the gear lever hits the endstop)?

Can you tell I'm grasping at straws?

Oh BTW you will need to correct oil, not engine oil. Ask in halfords, they have a list of lubes for diffrent cars.
Will Munns

I've pretty much ruled out the cable. Both ends are securely fitted. My original thought was that it needed adjustment but the fact of the matter is that if it just needed adjustment then i would either always have geras or never have gears. When I do have gears i have the easily, whereas when i dont i cant even get close. Its not like a borderline thing.

Does anyone know enough about the internals of the gearbox to know if there is something taht would stop me getting into the 2, 4, R gears? maybe there is something that stops reverse going in while normal driving taht could effetc the rest of the gears if faulty?

You not the only one clutching at straws........ :(
Garry

Will, a clutch problem could either disappear after a good thrash, or get worse - but again, it wouldn't effect one half of the gate - all gears would be equally effected.

Interestingly, a low oil level has been linked to difficult reverse slection... but I don't think that 2/4th gears are usually effected. I'd imagine that the two rails in the gearbox are at a similar level, but I don't have access to a PG1 worskshop manual to confirm.

What makes me suspicious about the cable Gary, is simply the temporal relationship to the current problem. That and the fact that it seems to effect just the lower half of the gate (the gears that would be effected if there was a problem with the cable). Quite why this should get worse when warm, I am not sure, but I think that it must be one of the prime candidates to cause the problem described?
Rob Bell

<clutching at straws>
at high RPM the water will be pused around the system faster _and_ be hotter, as the pipes run alongside the cables...
</straws>
Will Munns

We've been through lots of causes but let's start with the easiest: how did you change the cable?? Which one did you snap?

Gary, I'm with Rob. I wouldn't rule out the cable. You can check the oil, it will not make any harm. But in my opinion it's not this.

The cable makes even more sense when we talk about 2nd and 4th, the cable has to be "stretch". When you've got problems selecting if you stop the car and turn it off can you engage? I would check the complete cable lenght while a friend is selecting the gears, F stopped of course :-).
And check for any stress points with the hand.

Keep us posted and I will try to understand it better.

Valter.
Valter

60k!!!!
i hope not... mines just got there!
R Jay

Hi all,

I'm french, I owne a 96'MGF'Cup since... last week. And yesterday I had a big problem during track day... (Pictures and Videos here : http://www.forumtuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=727&start=75)

So, suddenly I had only 2nd and 4th gear.
Impossible to use 1st, 3rd and 5th gear. (I don't know about REAR...)

So, I had to drive 60 kilometers behind another car...

Either if I drove with 2nd or 4th gear, my clutch was... very HOT, it smelt "hard" (sorry for my english...) and I had to stop the engine. I was only able to get to neutral position if the engine was stopped, otherwise my clutch was bleeding ;-( ;-(

So, do you think this is one of the famous selector cables or/and do you think this is also my clutch ? Or something inside the gearbox ? Gloups.... I hope that's only the cables...

(Thanks a lot to Dieter and Valter for those 2 very interesting pages : http://216.239.37.104/translate_c?hl=de&langpair=de%7Cen&u=http://www.mgfcar.de/gear_select/index.htm&prev=/language_tools and http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/gearbox_cable.html)
Arnaud

>> your MGF will also start falling apart at 60K!!!! <<

Mine fell apart at 100,870 miles, mainly because of a short section of Armco...

SF
Scarlet Fever

Hi, any ideas about what happened to mine ?

Is it possible that this is "only" the clutch ? I think when the clutch is "out" we can still engage 2nd and 4th gear on few cars. Is it possible on the MGF ?

Otherwise, if "only" one of the 2 cables is damaged I think there were no "clutch smell" ?

If that's the clutch, where do you think is the best place to buy a "race" clutch ?

Thanks in advance
Arnaud

Arnaud,

The clutch on the F can get smelly sometimes. Specially under very fast acceleration from zero.
A competition clutch may be found at AP or Quaiffe. Try their sites.

HTH, Valter.

Valter

Hard track use can cause clutch problems, in that heat can result in damage to the clutch 'springs' and result in it being slow to engage/ disengage. Result is usually a 'grunch' as you change gear.

Your problem Arnaud, sounds very similar to Garry's in that a set of gears in one plane cannot be selected. Therefore, I think that this is one of the selector cables has either become disconnected (usually at the gearbox end) or has snapped. If disconnected, the cable can be easily clipped back on (not had this myself - my cables have been rose-jointed by Tech-speed). If cable snapped, then replacement is necessary. :o(

See Valter's directions on cable replacement at http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/gearbox_cable.html
Rob Bell

Thanks again for those answers.

So, it seems I have 2 problems : gear selection cable + clutch...

Maybe the cable was broken first, then I had clutch problem during the lap end, while returning in second gear to the pits, with a "hot" clutch...
Arnaud

So, Tonight is the night. Usually the car fixes itself before i get home from work, thus stopping a prper investigation. Butlast night i intentionally limped home in 3rd to ensure the problem still existed in the morning. Sure enough this morning i cant get into reverse. So i've left it there ( hopped into the mgb ).

So tonight, i'm going to check if i can move the gear boxmanually into 2nd,4th etc without the cable and just puling the lever on the gearbox. this should rule out either the gearbox or the cable.... god i hope the problem is in the cable... oh please.......

Lastly.........
Valter - I bascially follwed your instructions to swapping the cable over. the only deviation i made was cutting the closing plate off and filling the holw this made with some silican sealant to stop the water getting into teh gear tunnel. But thanks for the initial instructions.... saved me a fortune!
Garry

Keep us posted Garry!

And thanks for the mention.

Valter.
Valter

Hi Garry, how did you get on - my money is on the cable.

Any chance the outer cable(s) are moving or coming adrift along their route from lever to box?
eg check that one isn't bowing up under the cubby box in the cabin.

Regarding adjustment - cable lengths should be adjusted so that in neutral the gear lever and its counter weight (with cables connected) sits naturally where it would fall if there we no cables attached.

Good luck

jt

Oh - and a few obvious ones that I guess you'll have eliminated:

Did you replace both cables or just one?

If just one - did you get the right one?

If both, are they connected to the right bits at each end respectively aren't they?

No chance you damaged the cable(s) by over bending the outers when refitting?


John Thomas

Sorry Gary to use again your post, but at the begining I was thinking we had the same problem... but it seems not...

So, last updates for my problem(S) :

If we lift up the rear part of the car and if we use the second gear, only the right wheel is moving, nothing in the left wheel...
If we move the gear selector, under the engine, it seems everything is moving correctly according to the gearbox cables...

I'll keep you informed of the results, as I now have to found a garage who can take my car...
Arnaud

This thread was discussed between 23/05/2003 and 28/05/2003

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