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MG MGF Technical - K2000 - a 2 litre K-series!

Found this whilst surfing, news release, 13th Jan, 2003:

>>
MG Sport & Racing Limited and Engine Developments Limited are delighted to announce that they have reached agreement for the V8 & V10 Sportscar engines produced by Engine Developments at its Rugby factory, to be known as MG XPower engines from 2003 onwards.
This agreement is part of the ongoing association between the two companies that began with the intended CART engine programme announced in 2002.
John Judd, managing director, Engine Developments Limited said: "This is an important part of the growth and realisation of our Sportscar racing activities, and we are delighted that we have been able to find a way to continue our association with MG Sport & Racing. We hope that some of our existing and any potential new customers will benefit from this link up and enable them to obtain support from sources that were previously unavailable to them."
Rob Oldaker, managing director, MG Sport & Racing Limited added: "The association with EDL had continued after the CART rules change of direction last year and we now look forward to working together in technical collaboration on this new venture which widens further the exposure for MG XPower."
Engine Developments is also taking this opportunity to announce that it is developing a 2-litre version of the well known MG Rover, Powertrain Limited's 'K' series 4 cylinder engine. Initially this will have Motorsport applications.
"We believe there are a number of possible applications for the 2-litre engine, as the ultra lightweight 'K' series is already widely used in competition and is also available in various upgraded forms for road use. The 2-litre version, which we are currently referring to as the 'K2000', will give performance that has so far been unavailable from what is an extremely light and compact powerplant, so we are hopeful that it will generate substantial interest from existing 'K' series users", said John Judd.
<<

Interesting...
Rob Bell

Letīs wait for more news, then... :-)
Valter

I thought that they had reached the 'stretching' limits of the K series at 1.8 litres - unless of course it is going to be external combustion:-)

Ted
Ted Newman

Excuse my lack of knowledge in this area but I thought they use the k series in the 2.0 litre 600 and 420 gsi? Or were these 8 valve versions?
R Baker

Richard, the 2 litre capacity engines in the 600 and 800 were T-series - and very different animals to the K.

Ted, you're right, I too thought they'd reached the limits of the K-series with the 1.8i. Evidently, EDL reckon they have a way around the physical limits we thought constrained the engine capacity...
Rob Bell

So out with the wet liners and in with bigger pistons!
Will Munns

So what sort of output do you reckon we can expect from a "k2000"?
Stephane

Very interesting, i for one am intrigued as to how they think they can achieve a 2 litre capacity in what is essentially a 1.4 block.

If they can do it however, would this make the VVC version one of the highest power to weight ratio engines in it's class? The 1.8 VVC is already near the top of the list...

SF
Scarlet Fever

hmmm difficult to say Stephane, i suppose you could extrapolate from the 1.6 to the 1.8 in MPi guise to the VVC to get a ball park figure...

1.6 = 115
1.8 = 135
1.8 VVC = 160

Therefore...

1.6 : 1.8
115 : 135
1 : 1.17

1.8 : 2.0
135 : 135 x 1.17
135 : 158

So an MPi version might have say 158 ps, taking it one step further a VVC might be...

1.8 : VVC
135 : 160
1 : 1.19

2.0 : 2.0 VVC
158 : 158 x 1.19
158 : 188

So, an educated guess would be say 188 ps...

Can we expect a TF 190 in the near future then? :-)

But more likely i am miles out! :-)

SF
Scarlet Fever

The engine in question was 'on show' at the Autosport show but is as yet only vapourware.

2 litres is possible by using larger liners with an increased OD and siamesing them together, the bore can then be increased by around 3-3.5mm, this is a tricky procedure and lends itself to liner failure between the bores, the liners can be joined together with silver solder to stop them moving but the heat can distort the liners.

A siamesed monobloc liner is the correct way of increasing the bore while keeping the engine footprint the same, but this is a difficult item to manufacture/machine.

Increasing the stroke could lead to a very unfavourable rod angle since the rod will need shortening, there is also the problem of the piston coming out of the bottom of the liner if the rod is shortened and the stroke increased, its already pretty close on the 1.8.

It may be possible/desirable for a slugger like the Freelander but it may well be quite compromised.

Dave
Dave Andrews


Hi all,

have I missed something or where does it say that the 2 -litre is using exactly the same block as the "ordinary" K ? Maybee same attachment for bell housing / gearbox etc. but slightly longer and wider block with hopefully lots of reinforcement beams could be a new start for full 2 litre and maybee later on even 2,3 L. Anything said about cambelt driven balancing to avoid resonances ? Looking forward to see that engine. Additional length of about 50 mm as well as slightly broader block would still fit in You know what car :) Guess Roger knows all about it....


BR, Carl.
Carl Blom

The 2 litre K is adverstised as having the same footprint as the 1.4/1.6/1.8, it would be a less useful if the block were taller, wider or longer since it would no longer fit in a K shaped hole.

The expense of tooling up for a new block / ladder / head etc. etc. would not make sense when there are plenty of other good 2 litres around, the only thing which makes the development viable is the interchangeability and re-use of the maximum number of existing parts/assemblies.

A secondary harmonic balancer would be a nice idea on a long stroke engine (Mitsu, Porsche and GM already do this), but driving it from the cambelt would be folly.

Dave
Dave Andrews


Hi Dave,
mised that info that it will share the same block :(
Not much space today for head / block sealing and stiffness - even less so on a wider bore... Time will tell what it will look like.

BR, Carl.
Carl Blom

I guess they could also goto oval pistons and bores (or is this protcted by Honda's patents?); cost would prohibit road use though. Whatever route they take, it sounds expensive.
can we expect a 32-valve head (or is this also Honda's sole domain ?).

Steve
Steve

I think Honda's patent on oval pistons is pretty safe, they could never get them to work properly... :-)), in any event the ovalisation has to be in the same plane as the crank centre line in order for it to work and this would worsen the situation WRT to accommodating the pistons in the current block length :-)). * valves per cylinder is ony really viable with ovalised pistons, there is simply not the room for the actuation mechs and the required seat / insert area vs valve area equation penalises lots of very small valves.

Dave
Dave Andrews

Plus, the combustion chamber center could not be in the same place as the 1.8. And even the virtual line that passes through the centers of the pistons could not be a straight one, as seen from the top of the engine. The centers may be "disaligned", like a very bored out racing engine. But I doubt it will be the solution for a road use car.

Cheers, Valter.
Valter

This thread was discussed between 13/01/2003 and 14/01/2003

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