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MG MGF Technical - Low coolant level alarm

Low coolant level alarm

Lets start with a specification, big thanks to Branco for this

“Something easy to install, inexpensive and effective”

I would refine this with reliable, fail-safe and easy to test

My recent serious research has focused on commercially available float switches, there are many. Simply select appropriate switch, drill hole in expansion tank, wire suitable sounder in series with switch, connect to supply, test, refill system etc.

What I don’t like about this is draining fluid, drilling holes, sealing holes etc I well know the therapeutic value of all that time spent in the garage of an evening, I don’t have that luxury or inclination,

I want something I can practically drop in the tank and check easily therefore giving on going confidence and peace of mind.

So we have our spec

· Easy to install
· Inexpensive
· Effective i.e. highly reliable, Fail safe, easy to test

I think I have a solution that meets all these, though I have some measuring and research still to do

If any of you can think of a requirement not addressed by the spec please contribute.


Regards David
D Brunton

Oops,
I posted this on the other thread. It's better here.


I was thinking of an outside sensor that you can stick-on low down on the expansion tank. (below the min level)
This sensor needs to sense if water is present on the inside of the plastic casing. When the water level goes down, past the sensor, then a signal will be sent to set off a bright red light and/or buzzer that is in your field of vision in the dash area.

All we need to do is to investigate if such a sensor exists. I'll check out my electronics books.

Cheers,
Branko.


Branko

I am unclear why, for the sake of spending £25 you would not buy an expansion tank (same size and fixings as original and sensor from Rover and another £10 or so for cable and light from a motor factor, which can easily be retro fitted to your MG and in my experience works. If you want a buzzer, presumably you can buy one to add to/replace the light.

I did the retro fit 5 weeks ago and works well.

Drilling a hole in an expansion tank to fit an aftermarket device appears to be asking for trouble.
Julian

Completely agree with you Julian - but I can also see the enjoyment in the challenge of 'doing it yourself'! :o)
Rob Bell

Sounds good to me Julian. Could you produce any DIY instructions and photos for those of us who are completely inept when it comes to wiring stuff?
Dave Livingstone

Julian,
Yep, that's one way you could do it.

Rob,
You hit the nail on the head.

Enjoyment!
Think of the satisfaction of not only doing it yourself but making it also.

I do however, understand it's not everyones cup of tea.

Branko.


Branko

I have to agree Julian, and am half way through fitting it. As I said on the other thread, I just need to confirm that the buzzer / LED combination is load enough to be heard in the noisiest conditions.

The tank took 10 minutes to fit, and that included siphoning out the existing coolant! Two screws, 2 hose clips and thats it.

I too went down the road of searching the web for suitable non-contact sensors, etc - (there was no way I was going to re-engineer the expansion tank ! ) but everything, when compared to buying the new tank and sensor, was over-engineered, too expensive, or too time consuming. Plus the float in the new tank gives an exact measure without any calibration etc.

Go on - you know it makes sense ! :-))
Tony

Don't get me wrong. I like to look at alternative solutions if they are better than what is out there. I applaude David and Branko.

The solution in this instance is out there today. It is inexpensive and it works. The thought of drilling holes in expansion tanks is not something I would do! Having said that I do have a TF water/oil cooler on my MGF which was a real pig to retrofit and most people just would not 'risk' it.

Now if you want to convince Mike Satur to reintroduce the Chrome Supersports side air vents and to introduce LED lights to replace the ones he uses from Fiat for his rear light cluster, I would be with you!

Julian
Julian

Having now caught up with the original thread...........

Yes, there is the chance that the buzzer might go off inadvertidly, but the float in the new tank is about a third of the width from one side, and rides up & down a fixed column. It is there less prone to 'slop' when cornering than any sensor fixed to the external wall of the tank.

The buzzer also has a distinct advantage - anyone who has driven through winding mountain passes at speed will recall that their eyes are on the road (and round the next corner if possible), a lot more than on the dashboard and their ears are turned to the engine / gearbox - you'll know when the buzzer goes but probably miss the led. If it's slop that causing it then the buzzer will go off - if it stays on any more than a few seconds you know you have a problem.

Tony

Julian and Tony

I have just suffered HGF and was unable to get the PRT fitted at the time as MGR were going down and the dealer was waivering over warranty. So I took the repair for free and missed out on the prt. As a result a simple and cheap retro fit solution I am very interested in.

Did you consider using a spare light in the dash or just add a stand alone LED? Any pictures and instructions available?
David M

>> Did you consider using a spare light in the dash or just add a stand alone LED? Any pictures and instructions available? <<

David, take a look at Bruce's warning light instructions on Tony's website for some inspiration: http://apttony.co.uk/Servicing/WarningLights.html
Rob Bell

Hi all,
take a look in "Everyday Practical Electronics",May 2005 ! Here is a cheap and easy fix with only a 4093 IC. Uses capacitor coupled AC instead of DC-current as detector = no wear of the sensor pins and no contamination of the fluid. At least a way to go for the DIY-er ;O) / Carl.
Carl

"Did you consider using a spare light in the dash or just add a stand alone LED? Any pictures and instructions available? "

David,
I wondered if it was possible to use the 'Automatic transmission fault' lamp if you havn't got a steptronic? But taking Tonys point about driving in bending roads, then a buzzer would be needed as well.

GrahamH


Gentlemen

When I started this thread I still had some research to do, well part of the research led me to patent rights etc.

I'm sorry to tell you. . . . . that I can't tell you anything . . . .until I've fully checked things out.

Sorry again

David
D Brunton

Ignorance is no defense in the eyes of the law - unless its patent law, in which case you're better off not knowing ;-p

Patents only protect aginst people making money from the patent, so you could point us all at the relevent site to tell us how it works (just you can't sell it on after!)
Will Munns

David,

don't forget a research in the MMS archives :)
http://www2.mgcars.org.uk/cgi-bin/gen5?runprog=mgbbs&access=&mode=archiveth&subject=69&subjectar=69&thread=2001112009302132399

Dieter K.

_B_B_S_ archives, apology for the mad typo
Dieter K.

Dieter,

Looks like you have again, "hit the nail on the head"
with your search.
This method is exactly what I was thinking about doing.
And honest, I did not search the archives before.
(Maybe I should have.)

The cost is a little on the high side for me as here is Aus it converts to $245 AUS. Serious dollars.



Cheers,
Branko.

Branko


Thank you again Gentlemen

Interesting but. . . . sorry no comment

Regards David
D Brunton

LOL looking at that archived thread, I see I was after a warning system that weighed in at around 50 quid. The Rover replacement tank, sensor and a simple circuit knocked up from cheap bits from RS/ Maplins would probably come in under that threshold... :o)
Rob Bell

This thread was discussed between 19/04/2005 and 26/04/2005

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