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MG MGF Technical Lowering Knuckle bolt BBS discussion at MG-Cars.info
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MG MGF Technical - Lowering Knuckle bolt
| I'm toying with the idea of lowering my F. I have read the archives and I am swaying towards replacing the knuckle bolt that supports the hyrogas unit. Can the original bolts be machined to suitin any way? If not, are they readily available to buy and how much and where? Has anyone made (machined) a set for themselfs? (I have contacts that do machining etc) I have seen deiters site which has good info. cheers, Branko |
| Branko |
| As long as the "original" hardend surface is keept the knuckles can be machined as per Dieters site. Not sure if I would go that route today,have had no wear or any other problems BUT it seems more straight forward to reduce the mating alu... / Carl. |
| Carl |
| Hi Branko, MG F centre, Mike Satur and Brown & Gammons to name three approx GBP100. Link automotive in Mitcham also sell a kit and I think one of there own make that is also adjustable,but at a price!. Don't forget you will need a full 4wheel alignment afterwards. |
| Andrew Regens |
| Thanks for the tips guys. Carl, I've had a think about it and I should be able to get 4 of the lowering pins made up from a friend who does turning etc. I would follow the pattern and specs on Deiters site and maybe make them out of stainless steel.? Andrew, Thanks for the info. I think that most only supply the 4 lowering pins and you use your existing knuckle parts. The cheapest is at Mike Satur for a Set of 4 at £56.40(includes VAT), postage £4.11 (includes VAT) Cheers, Branko |
| Branko |
| Hello Branko, I've got a set of pins laying around which can be yours for 62 euros + shipping. Let me know if you need them. Cheers, |
| Erik |
| Another option is to use Trophy knuckles - already shorted, hardened and treated :o) |
| Rob Bell |
| yep, me for instance started and tried _only_ four different versions. ;) 1. Cut down original knuckles as first done by Carl. (problem is the gaitor seal works) 2. machined joints regarding the drawing on site (problem with surface hardening) 3. Bought the short knuckles as offered complete. (Obviously installed them in wrong manner with to less grease and they sadly rusted away) 4. Cut the alloy pistons by 8 mils with a small hacksaw after removal, file smooth and push them back in. (Very pleased with it :)) So if a hydragas pump, a hacksaw and a sharp file with someones mechanical skills is available, I'd never do anything else than #4 :) Notice the relations of ride height to knuckle jount length. It's 4:1 and -8 mils less at the knuckle or piston will be good for -32mm ride height and provides the same hydragas pressure as on standard. Take care on the washers installed. They must get back in to balance rear to front height and protect the alloy pistons from getting hurt from the knuckle joint. Regards Dieter |
| Dieter |
| Erik, are the pins the short ones or the standard ones? Rob, Hmm, I'll check that out. Maybe a car breakers could have a complete set ready to go.? Dieter, looks like you've "been there, done that". I'll send you mail tonight when I get home. "4. Cut the alloy pistons by 8 mils with a small hacksaw after removal, file smooth and push them back in. (Very pleased with it :))" Dieter, which alloy pistons are you talking about? cheers Branko |
| Branko |
| Branko, Dieter means the alloy displacer cone - see http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/suspension/hydragas.htm for more on the internals of the hydragas sphere. If you buy second hand from a breakers, you could also obtain the displacer cones from the Trophy spheres. These have different profiles to the standard cones, which alters the spring and to an extent, damper rates... Might be interesting to experiment! The Trophy spheres run with different internal valving - which alters the damper rates - but I guess you don't really want to change the whole suspension system do you? |
| Rob Bell |
| >>> Erik, are the pins the short ones or the standard ones? <<< The short version, as sold by MS. |
| Erik |
| Rob, I don't think it's a good idea to swapping the cones (me said alloy pistons) between different displacers. It's not only the different iner valves but also the lower housing of the displacer different. This lower housing (bell ?) has for sure influence on the displacer characteristics. See comparision > 'metal cover' diameter in first column @ http://www.mgfcar.de/hydragas/compare.htm Branko, the understanding whith the cone and the howto get's quite clear if you have a displacer in your hands and put pressed air to the displacer inlet. :) 1 to 2 bar is enough to allow poppin out the cone. I did with a tiny pressed air compressor for bicycles at a single displacer to get experiance. Aswell I own a Metro interconnection pipe with the same input valve like at tyre hose connectors. Usually, if someone needs to get out the cones while the displacers are installed: - Use vacuum function of your hydragas pump and suck off fluid. (Cones disappear upwards) - dismantle the displacer brackets (4 d*mn screws at each) and get off the complete knuckle joints from the upper arm (notice the washers installed) - switch pump to refill the displacers and let fluid run back (cone appears visible) - pump more fluid back in until the lower rubber sphere comes out visible through the displacer lower metal cover. - lift the loose displacer upwards by hand (bracket is loose) and bend the cone sidewards until it pops out and you have it in your hand. Cut the mentioned app. 8mm from the lower end, file smooth and rectangular. All four cones must be cut off equal, so if you do only 7.5mm at one, then remove the same measure at the other three. This means measure and sign them before you do and don't mix rear with front cones. But all back in sequence, while some _soap_ (dish washer soap) to the cone tip helps to let the knob shape pop in easier to the diaphragma. Don't worry asking more though. |
| Dieter |
| Rob, thanks for the info and link. I suppose that I want to lower the car at low cost and to do it easily. Erik, I will email you soon. Dieter, Filing down the cones looks OK, but, when this is done, does the top of the pin rest on anything when put back into the displacement cone? Cheers, Branko |
| Branko |
| >> I don't think it's a good idea to swapping the cones (me said alloy pistons) between different displacers. It's not only the different iner valves but also the lower housing of the displacer different. This lower housing (bell ?) has for sure influence on the displacer characteristics. << Dieter, not quite sure I know what you mean? For sure, the cones themselves have different profiles - which impacts upon spring and roll rates - but are you saying that the lower half of the hydragas sphere is different between Trophy and standard MGF? There is a clear difference between Metro and MGF which is shown very eloquently on your webpage - but do we know whether there is a difference between variants of MGF - and does it matter? |
| Rob Bell |
| Erik, can you email me instead. I can't seem to find your email, unless its *****.********@pandora.be ? (full details hidden for privacy reasons... Cheers, Branko |
| Branko |
| please mail me at erik@baekelant.com (not showing up as a member, as I am not at my place) |
| Erik |
| Posted 14 February 2006 at 16:55:45 UK time Rob Bell, North London Another option is to use Trophy knuckles - already shorted, hardened and treated :o) I think you will find these knuckles are the same as the MGF it is the displacers that are different as you have mentioned. Also the front and rear displacers have different part nos so don't get them mixed. |
| mike |
| Mike just an additinal question to the Trophy parts. The front hydragas displacer connection pipe has a different p/n than with the standard MGF. Only the pipe from displacer to interconnection. RNP000070 and RNP000060 http://www.mgfcar.de/epc/324.htm Anything known about the reason from your side ? Restricted diameter ? |
| Dieter |
| >> I think you will find these knuckles are the same as the MGF it is the displacers that are different as you have mentioned. << Mike, I am not sure that this is true: http://www.mgf.ultimatemg.com/group2/suspension/hydragas_images/fig_lowering_kuckles.JPG This image shows a standard versus Trophy knuckle, pictured whilst I was at Techspeed. There is also another part number - GSV1225 - for the knuckles, which Roger very kindly supplied many moons ago, not long after the original Trophy SE launch. That said, Dieter's on-line EPC does not list the Trophy knuckle as a unique part (it has a blanket part number for the standard knuckle, although the displacer sphere for the Trophy DOES get a different part number, as one would expect). So I am a little confused... |
| Rob Bell |
| Hmm, I may have to wait until we can definitly say that we can use a trophy knuckle in a mgf. Has anyone actually done this? If not, I would hate to buy the trophy knuckles and then find out that they will not fit the MGF. Cheers, Branko |
| Branko |
| I would think that Dieter's suggestion of cutting down the alloy extension on the displacer cone would be the cheapest option in any case Branko - but it would certainly be good to be able to nail the confusion regarding the trophy suspension parts... |
| Rob Bell |
| Branko, I have a set of adjustable Link Auto displacers that I would let you have at a good price. One for each corner and yes they are different front and rear. Give me a call David |
| d mottram |
| think you will find these knuckles are the same as the MGF it is the displacers that are different as you have mentioned. << "Mike, I am not sure that this is true: ..So I am a little confused... " Don't be, re-quote "think you will find these knuckles are the same as the MGF " This is true of every Trophy I have worked on. Dieter,"The front hydragas displacer connection pipe has a different p/n than with the standard MGF. Only the pipe from displacer to interconnection. RNP000070 and RNP000060 http://www.mgfcar.de/epc/324.htm Anything known about the reason from your side ? Restricted diameter ? " Yes the inner dia is different,more restricted as you have suggested. |
| mike |
| Bingo !! :) Another secret disclosed ! (Disclosed for me of course, dunno if it's common for other) I want some from second hand. |
| Dieter |
| Can't argue with experience Mike! :o) |
| Rob Bell |
| GSV1225, indeed, Rog mentioned it in 2001 and me and Erik put it on the website (See Google for that P/N) Assume it was listed in a late Y2000 EPC, cause Rog for sure didn't post none existing P/N's. Part A on your image is the well known short knuckle as sold initially by Minisports and all UK aftermarket suppliers. Later in Germany *official* with Rover like p/n. Old regulars may recall that from 1999 before the Caterpillar parts supply policy dropped all the foreign country parts in 2001. (Soft top liner, LHD front box, knuckles etc) OK, no disclosed mystery. It keeps open. |
| Dieter |
This thread was discussed between 14/02/2006 and 23/02/2006
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