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MG MGF Technical - MG TF 2003 Passenger side Electric Window problem

MG TF 2003
My passenger side window has stopped working this afternoon(3 month's after first playing up), I can hear the motor working but it's not moving the glass up or down.
Any idea how much a Window regulator/Motor is?
Any one got any part No's?
GazSuttonUK

http://www.mgfcar.de/epc/6579.htm

Just 200 quid from new ;)
So it might be better to hurry and find one at ay breaker.

Rgds
Dieter
Dieter

Thanks for the information Dieter
I did'nt realise they were so expensive.
GazSuttonUK

You need the 10p plastic gear in the gearbox, but I have not been able to find a source.
Complete motor with arms is £130 from the usual suspects.
Geoff F.
G. Farthing

Geoff, you are right it was the plastic gear(completely stripped) and a terrible mess in the gear housing, a gunge of particles of plastic, grease and water.
I phoned my local MG Rover Dealer and they have just said the Motor/Regulator assembly is £248.00
I think this is little excessive!
GazSuttonUK

Some photo's:-
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f326/GazSuttonUK/A370024.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f326/GazSuttonUK/A370031.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f326/GazSuttonUK/A370030.jpg

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f326/GazSuttonUK/A370033.jpg
GazSuttonUK

I did not take any pictures as I threw it too far.
MS or B&G are +/- £130.
Rimmer Bros have the plastic sheet for about £5. Worth having.
Geoff F.
G. Farthing

Gaz, nice pices of the mad part.

Any idea where the water got in ? I recall the wiper motor has a problem with the wrong location of a drain hole. Might be similar with the window motor ?

Anyway, please, may I use the images on my site ? :)

Dieter

Not sure how the water got in but the grease seems to have gone hard and dry like powder.

Yes you can use the images on your site.
Regards, Gaz.
GazSuttonUK

There are 3 or 4 people on Ebay advertising MGFs being broken for spares. I suspect they would sell you the window bits for a lot less that £150.

Might be worth a try.

Cheers

Patrick
PA Beet

Gaz, assuming that the gearbox "worm" is metal, and undamaged, if it is, I would have thought that any competent clock repairer could cut you a new wheel in brass or steel.( not sure how plastic would stand up to a fly cutter?)The old teeth could be turned off, and a new "ring" pinned on. Would think the cost would be £30-£50. Worth a try?
roy bridge

Good idea Roy. I got a second hand Motor/Regulator from eBay last night, but I will make enquires about having a wheel manufactured for the next time.
Regards, Gaz.
GazSuttonUK

Gaz

What did you have to do to take the unit apart?

On mine it is all gummed together with some white gunk.

It strikes me as a totally useless piece of engineering to manufacture something that has both a short service life and is not repairable!

James
James Reinhardt

In normal operation, the units appear to have a good service life - the ones on my car are 10 years old, and touch wood, are still perfectly serviceable. But the choice of nylon for the gears? Low friction and low cost would be my guesses. The mechanisms don't require regular greasing and are effectively sealed for life.

If the parts are wearing out, it could indicate that the window alignment is 'off' - leading to higher-than-design loads leading to tooth breakage.
Rob Bell

Rob

The LHS window was the second to go on my '02 car. That makes them about 4 years old, and the car has 50,000km (30,000 miles) on the clock.

That's lousy design!

James
James Reinhardt

Hmm. 2002. IIRC 2002 is into 'Project Drive' territory - the time during which a number of components were either deleted or cheapened.

I guess that your experience could reflect this - or may reflect the environment. South Africa is fortunately blessed with some rather warm weather - unlike here in the UK where temperatures are typically rather lower...

What is the experience of other F/TF owners in South Africa James?

Assuming that not everyone has failing window mechanisms, I would maintain that you are experiencing far more failures than could be regarded as 'normal' - and thus would recommend you look for the underlying cause. Whether the window is sticking in the guides or the channels are misaligned I don't know - but they are just two things to look at that could save you valuable Rand in future...
Rob Bell

Rob.

I think something must have changed around the time of the TF launch as my 02 160 has also had one window regulator changed, as well as a door lock solenoid changed in the past as well!..

Most of our local TFers with similar year cars have also had at least one, if not both regulators fail and in keeping with my TF also a fair few door solenoids..

Also 02 TFs seem even more prone to HGF than normal.... the number of reported failures around this year is way above average, even for the K....
I looked at around half a dozen 02s, early 03 TFs before buying mine and everyone bar one had suffered HGF sub 30K miles. :o(

Perhaps there was a "Pre-project Drive?".......

G. M Leonard

James Reinhardt, South Africa, Mk I Midget 948cc, james.reinhardt@worldonlinedotco.za
Gaz

What did you have to do to take the unit apart?

On mine it is all gummed together with some white gunk.

It strikes me as a totally useless piece of engineering to manufacture something that has both a short service life and is not repairable!

I have to agree it is a bad design, and why do they cost so much?

To take the unit apart I used a 'Stanley Knife' and just cut around the join.
GazSuttonUK

Thanks for the info, Gaz.
James Reinhardt

>> Most of our local TFers with similar year cars have also had at least one, if not both regulators fail and in keeping with my TF also a fair few door solenoids.. <<

Wow :o(

Thanks for this info Mark - and I wonder, like you, whether the TF was the first 'victim' of 'Project Drive'? :o( We know that they weren't slow in deleting various components like the under bonnet lamp, the second horn, the spare wheel, the boot tidy net, the seat pockets .... the list goes on.

Perhaps cheapened window regulators is one of them - and therefore James could well be spot on - a fundamental design flaw was introduced?
Rob Bell

Yes apparently the Project Drive got hold of the window mechanism and the door locking mechanism for the 03MY TF and that’s why there are so many failures of both components on 03 and 04 cars. There was also a reduction of the rear deck sound deadening together with the other parts listed in late 02. Project Drive became considerably worse by 04 when MGR stopped painting the underside of the boot and bonnet. I am glad that I have an early 02 TF that only has the bonnet light missing.
C Tideswell

Project Drive? Project Drivel more like :o(

MY2005 saw money and quality being put back in according to those who know - such a shame that so few MY2005s actually managed to escape the factory (although there are seemingly rather more than the 631 initially thought thanks to the industrious activities of Pricewaterhouse Coopers during the early administration period...)
Rob Bell

CT, it's just a pity that we '02-TF'rs have to pay £190 Road Tax for the privelege. (:))
roy bridge

Why oh Why did I open my big mouth???? Went to raise the passenger side window tonight-jammed solid ! took the door panel off, and tried to lift the glass while operating the switch, not a sniff. Just getting a "click" when I operate the switch, so pressume it's getting power.Just hope I can dismantle it and get it jammed up rather than down till I have time to suss it. GRRRRRRRR!
roy bridge

> it's just a pity that we '02-TF'rs have to pay £190 Road Tax for the privelege

Not if you have a 160 you don't. :)
Paul Lathwell

GazSuttonUK


IF you don't want the damaged part and want to send it to me I could make some enquire here at work as to a possible replacement/repair, but I admit it may not be very cost effective - but need to see the part to think of ways to repair it. :)
Paul Lathwell

Window is now firmly up, ( drilled the panel and regulator and secured with a couple of bolts!) Motor is seized solid, not had the time to dismantle it yet.
Dealer wants £248+vat!! Local breaker wants £45, and are checking if they have one in stock.
Don't understand why you can't just buy the motor, but I ain't paying for a new one! it can stay bolted up till I can sort something out.
roy bridge

>Don't understand why you can't just buy the motor, but I ain't paying for a new one! it can stay bolted up till I can sort something out.

I came up against the same problem with rear track-rod end bush. The bush is worn and needs replacing but you can't buy just the bush you have to by the whole track rod end £69 +fitting +4-wheel alignment afterwards so you are talking about £160-170 for the sake of a worn bush. Still has to be done.

Paul Lathwell
Paul Lathwell

Our sept03 TF had its drivers door regulator mech changed a couple of months ago under warranty - it was going in for something else and gave up that morning after sounding a bit grumpy for a while. The dealers had them in stock which probably says it all....
Tony

Now got the motor in bits, looks just like the pics Gaz posted i.e. full of crud and water ingress.Have cleaned it out, and now the worm does turn the cog, am now hoping/wishing that it's a lubrication prob' as opposed to wear. Need to try it with a power source, as I don't fancy stripping the door again before I know it has a chance of working.Unfortunately work calls, so it will have to wait,if it is O.K. it could be a no-expense repair for lots of peeps who, like me, thought it was down to wear on the nylon cog. ( don't count chickens etc!) (;))
roy bridge

DOH! Egg on face! made the mistake of pulling the Brush Box off with the the motor body, how that was assembled from new defies logic. Got it back together, but suspect one of the brush springs isn't doing its job.Also broke off the tiny black box (capacitor?) so that had to be soldered back on. But, the motor is now turning, intermitantly,which I think could be the brush spring.I think it would have worked if I hadn't pulled the brush box off.
Now,when it does work, everything turns, so I'm still of the opinion that the problem is the build up of crud rather than the gears.Patience is now exhausted, so I'm off to the Breaker, Monday (:( .
If anyone decides to have a go it's a fairly simple job, as long as you don't pull the brush box off with the motor casing, that really is a nightmare! the hardest part is splitting the gearbox casing seal, which seems to be a rubber O ring embedded in a hard rubbery goo. Pity I cocked-up the brush box, I still don't know if it would have worked.
roy bridge

Forgot to mention, my friends wife has just got a window regulator/motor for her 5-series Beemer, cost?..............£110 !!!!!!
roy bridge

My 02 TF needed the motor & regulator replaced last July when the car was 2 and 1/2 yrs old :-( done by the garage before I parted with my cash thank goodness. The upside was that even though they are a small independant back street outfit they got the window alignment spot on when re-fitting the whole lot... :-)
D Jamieson

This thread was discussed between 01/07/2006 and 09/07/2006

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