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MG MGF Technical - MGF Engine Swop

I have just bought an early MGF which has a faulty engine, HGF+++.
What is the potential for MGF engine swops.
Can you squeeze a V8 in the back, has it been done already?
How about a 620TI engine 2litre turbocharged 200BHP?


Please give your suggestions, this car will become something very special when I have finished with it.
Peter

Very little other than a K series engine will fit in the space available - you'd have to go to the rear to find more space, which would destroy the balance of the car.

There have been some ideas bandied arround in the past, but as far as I know, noone has done it.

Have a read through the archive....
Neil

I think Mike Satur was working on an *F* to install a VW VR6 engine, so I guess this will fit in. Don´t know at what stage of the conversion he is at now.

Cheers,
David.
David

Don't forget to search at the Elise and Caterham scene as well. They will for sure have more experiance.

I heard of a *crazy* english engine design (HS Performance Products in Ware Herts) with a 2 litre V8 Engine, 40 valves. Good for up to 300bhp ;)
(two bike engines combined) Done already to a Caterham and a mad german guy is just working on converting it to the Elise.

http://home.t-online.de/home/Konst_K/
http://home.t-online.de/home/Konst_K/aktuell1.htm

English Newspaper Article !!
http://home.t-online.de/home/Konst_K/v8d.jpg

:)
Dieter
Dieter Koennecke

I have sourced a Rover 620 turbo engine.
We think it will be the easiest to install, since it uses the same gearbox and engine is similar (relatively).
By the end of the month my new MG will get some serious turbo charged grunt.
Peter

What about the 2.3 litre Honda Vtec unit? Used in the Prelude, innit?
JH Gillson

Peter, I would be concerned at the additional weight of the iron block T versus the all-ally K. Have you done any maths to see if you will need stronger rear springs etc ?
David

Yes, time will tell.
Peter

Sounds like a great project. Good luck, and give us a go when it is complete.
Nik & Anita

T16 is too long and will extend through the end of subframe alloy engine support/mounting, through the steel bodywork into the wheel arch and too damn close to the suspension and wheel. That is when keeping the PG1 gearbox in the same plane. Move this and you have a chance!!

It is no coincidence that the engine from EX257 which powers the MGF XPower 500 was chosen as this is a very compact unit and fits where the K series does. Unlike any of the O, M and T series family.

Keeping to the K series theme the simplest engine change is the KV6 as it too uses a version of the PG1. It has no length conflicts, only width conflicts as it has a wide 90 degree Vee construction. Again with the gearbox dictating where the engine sits the problem is that you have to move forward for the front bank of cylinders and this encroaches through the bulkhead and into the space current occupied by the fuel tank.

This can be got round as relocating a fuel tank is something that can be done of a one of special and you can then use the position of the fuel tank to help with weight distribution, but keep in mind the vulnerability of the tank to impacts.

Rog
Roger Parker

What about a supercharged K?
Mr Peebles

Because you souldn't turbocharge an engine that has head gasket problems when naturally aspirated.
George B.

When leafing though a copy of 'Which Kit?' I noticed an advertisment for a company that specialises in Rover parts, and had KV6s... This stuck in my mind for very obvious reasons!

I recall discussions with Scarlet when he was considering a KV6 conversion - including the use of a Porsche Boxter fuel tank! I think that a modified K is the best and most 'economical' route forwards.

With properly sorted water and oil cooling, head gasket longevity should not be a problem.
Rob Bell

KV6 engine in the rear, Boxster slab tank in the front, IMS instead of a spare. Fuel pipes run within the transmission tunnel (same route as gearbox cables).

This is AFAIC perfectly feasible and is a good way of obtaining a reliable 190 or so bhp in an F. Relocating the fuel tank is the biggest problem, but not insolvable. I looked at this quite seriously for around 6 months and reckon it will cost all in around £4500.00 to £5000.00 UKP including the price of a new(ish) ZT spec 190 KV6.

Uprated ancillery items to be considered are (in order of importance):

Brakes - Trophy Spec / Mike Satur
Suspension - Techspeed / Mike Satur
Aerodynamics - Front Splitter, KH and/or Trophy spec

Add these in and your looking at around another £1500.00

Also, you need a 'runaround' to drive while the work is being completed.

All in a major project and this is why i didn't go any further with it. Much better IMO to go the gas flowed head and multiple throttle bodies route. May not be as reliable, but you can do this 3 times financially before you get near the KV6 costs!

SF
Scarlet Fever

Guys, Why not consider a turbo or supercharger conversion for some healthy torque/BHP gains?

Cheers RichieR
RichieR

Supercharger is WAYYYYYYY to expensive, cheaper to replace the engine with a KV6!!!!!

Turbocharger is potentially another heat source in the (already too hot) engine bay.

Gas flowed head essentially is an efficiency improvement and with the head removed you can uprate the gasket, dowells, cam bolts and make any cooling system amendments such as alloy underbody pipework and larger capacity radiator. The head work on it's own will show a significant improvement in performance, but to get the best from the head work, you need to increase fuelling as well. This could easily be done with a turbo, a cheaper alternative is to go with multiple throttle bodies. This is less fuel efficient, and is a less elegant solution, being quite crude technology, but it will give an instantanious throttle response with no turbo lag and therefore as the extra power is progressive, will produce less stress on the engine as there is no sudden power increase.

Generally power = heat so any serious engine upgrades should also bear in mind engine bay temperatures and some bodywork alterations may also be necessary.

SF
Scarlet Fever

<but keep in mind the vulnerability of the tank to impacts>Rog said, Front locations have chosen for a number of production cars ,Hillman Imp, Porsche, beetle ,etc. so although there is a danger of frontal impact damage this could be reduced if suitable protection is considered, look at the MGB with its' tank visible from the rear ,it looks vunerable but it has never been a safety issue AFAIK. The KV6 engine in the F seems a logical progression but the weight and size seems it would be easier to build a stronger more powerful 4 cylinder IMO ;-)This could be achieved with a modified/revised VVC head mated to a stronger bottom end, 190-225BHP springs to mind. I hope to have some Dyno figures available soon on a modified dry sumped engine I have prepared for MGFraling.com team, versions of this could be duplicated for road use. Remember though it is not just the engine it is cooling ,brakes etc. that have to be considered as well to make any conversion sucessfull.
Mike.
mike

This thread was discussed between 12/05/2002 and 26/05/2002

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