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MG MGF Technical - MGF engine swop

Finally finished an MGF conversion to
2.0 litre turbo 225bhp spec.
Now just needs paint and its, anonymous, new owner will pick it up on Thursday.
Needless to say I took it out for a good beating today.
Left a boxster for dead on sliproad joining M40, sounds glorious with KN and dump value!
Peter

Mmmmmmmm
tim woolcott

Wow, only last week was i thinking of offering that as a conversion. glad to know you have completed it.

Is there any adverse handling due to the extra engine weight?
What gearbox / clutch have you used?
What size bore is the exhaust?
Have you cut the bodywork for turbo clearence? any heat sheilding fitted?
What have you done with the intercooler?

Is that 225bhp actally measured or just a guess?
What boost does it run?
Any other engine mods to get that power?

One more...Do you have any pics you could send me?

Soz for the questions, just very interested.

Drew
Drew

Peter,

Congratulations, that didn´t take you a lot of time to finish this one. Really interested in the final "as built" budget as most of us will be I think.

And err...What the h*ck is a "dump" valve?

cheers,
David

David

Congrats Peter,

Hope you have some pictures and more details to share with us (would love to publish it om my website).

David, I think it's time to read the theory about turbo's again....

cheers;
Erik

Wow! Brilliant Peter!

After Roger's comments about problems with the length of the T16 engine, I thought that this installation was going to be a problem!

How did you manage it - or are we in the relms of commercial interests?

You really ought to get this car featured in one or both the MG magazines - I happen to know that they'd both be very interested in showing this car of yours!
Rob Bell

!!!

Please tell us about it all! Figures and photos, please. :o))

Cheers, Valter.
Valter

MG World please, got a subscription running. *LOL*
DAvid

Yep, MG World please. I've got a subscription too and this sounds rather more interesting than some of the "articles" in there!

By the way, more X-Power girls too please!
Chris

>>By the way, more X-Power girls too please! <<

ROFL!
Rob Bell

Dump valve is a valve in the inlet from the turbo to the throttle body that effectively stores a slug of high pressure air which is dumped into the throttle body when the engine is a low revs (ie when the turbo isn't up to speed), thus keeping the boost pressure up.

Makes a superb 'Put-chush' type noise in operation - well cool! :-)

SF
SF

or on the M12(car not motorway) it make a continious whineing noise- not nice!
I thought it was just an over pressure valve, so when the turbo is active (high revs) but power is not required in huge amounts the excess air is 'dumped' to the outside world
Will Munns

Dump valve is actually a pressure release valve, it's purpose is to dump excess pressure into the atmosphere.

When you lift the throttle, throttle butterfly closes, this causes pressure between throttle plate and the turbo, without a dump valve the pressure causes the compression turbine of the turbo to slow down.

Hence when reapplying throttle, you have element of time for turbo to get back up to speed, therefore turbo lag.

A dump vavle, merely dumps this excess pressure, to prevent this happening.
paul weatherill

That was sort of my understanding, but I hadn't tried to work out what triggers it (although it could only really logicly sit there without some complex other system I hadn't thought of).
I also thought it was to avoid excess pressure breaking things (or forcing the same amount of air thru the throttle whatever the pressure on the pedal), but the slowing the turbo issue is one that had passed me by!

Will
Will Munns

Build costs
Purchase of early MGF with faulty engine and vandal damage £3000
purchase of Rover 620TI M reg £400 (salvage auction)
two months fitting and preparation
The 620 turbo engine produces 200 bhp as standard and with minor fettling it has been raised to 220 bhp, currently only running a low boost, but when the engine has been fully tested it will be raised.
I have only driven the car in dry conditions, but the chassis does seem to be put under significantly more pressure. It comes alive with the turbo, and currently corners are taken with care, since it is a customer's car. The bodywork is in need of paint at the moment, hence the full respray, two tone flip apparently, BRG with nightfire red.
Peter

Thanks for the info on the dump valve guys, not that is of any use to us regular 1.8MPI owners;-(

DAvid.


2 months of labour? 1 skiled mechanic; 8h/day; 40 working days; @ €40/h makes € 12800, now that´s a whole lot of money. DIY job would be better for those lucky to have the skills and tools. Tell us you´re able to do it in 10 working days *LOL*.
David

Superb.

I was thinking more like £3k for the conversion with engine for that 'mild' state of tune.

Peter. any chance of mailing me off list with some more detailed info?

Cheers
Drew
Drew Spalding

Peter, can you mail me (robert.bell@ucl.ac.uk) if you are interested in having this car featured in MG World?

On the chassis front, I guess you are probably more than aware that the hydragas knuckles can be machined down to lower the ride height whilst maintaining the hydragas pressure to stiffen the spring rates. Stiffer adjustable dampers can also be easily fitted - and are available relatively inexpensively from Brown and Gammons. Techspeed also very similar work on MGFs (I have one) - and I reckon the chassis could easily take a little more power. :o)

I guess you'll need to uprate the brakes too? The official uprated MG brakes are AP racing items - which are expensive. The front hubs are stock Montego/Maestro whilst the rear brake calipers are Rover 800.

How have you sorted the cooling system and engine bay temperatures?

A very exciting sounding project!!! :o))
Rob Bell

Paul,

Good description of the dump valve, i admit my knowledge is limited to 'discussions with a mate' who fitted one on his Renault 5 turbo. My description is how he explained it to me, which goes to show that he was talking out of his *rse (as usual!).

SF <--- learned something today, aint this BBS great? :-)
SF

SF, so your mate was talking out of his dump valve LOL.
mike
mike

>A very exciting sounding project!!! :o))

Yeah, the only interesting thread since month and nothing more than adverts for 'buy this magazine'.
How poor got this BBS ?

Dieter <-- Ennoyed foot walker
PS. Sorry for beeing so impolite, but I think I'm not alone with this feeling !!
Dieter Koennecke

>> How poor got this BBS ? <<

Err, could it be because we were all in Brittany? ;-)

Seriously Dieter, we have an Engine swap thread and a Nitrous one going at the moment, sounds pretty cool to me!

SF
Scarlet Fever

Perhaps indicative of a lull between MGF projects Dieter? Technical content - as ever - is determined by those who are brave enough to go out and do something different - which is particularly brave when it's one's own hard earned cash that is at stake!

So way to go to Peter and Richie!

So when IS someone going to put a 2.5L KV6 into an F - just to prove to everyone that it CAN be done? ;o)

PS When does the ban end mate? Sorry to hear that you are missing driving your MG!
Rob Bell

27 days walking left :(
Though, my apology !! Was very down the other day.

Cheers
Dieter
Dieter Koennecke

Don't worry Dieter - I think we all understand!
Rob Bell

I thought that during a driving ban you could actually drive but that you had to do it VERY carefully!

Cheers

Patrick
Patrick

Anybody tried getting a Honda S2000 engine into an F yet – very powerful 2 litre, non-charged engine (235+bhp) from the people who know how to make a VTEC/VVC engine.
Curious

To my knowledge, Curious, no. We know that Mike Satur is very interested in fitting a VW VR6 engine into an F - but as far as I know, this project has not yet started.

The advanted of using the 2L T16 turbo engine is that it uses the same PG1 gearbox as the K-series in the MGF. A Honda VTEC power train is likely to be very different, and represent something more of an engineering challange.
Rob Bell

>drive but that you had to do it VERY carefully!
Nope, if they get you then the troubles increase dramatically.
Though, I think the MG will be *beamed* suddenly to Dormagen in next week "in a strange dark way"
*g*

>2L T16 turbo engine is that it uses the same PG1 gearbox

Cheers ! That's what I liked to know about ;)
I heard from the Elise guys in D that final drive gear kits should be availiable to convert the gear box as well.
Wonder which relation is useful.
1:4.0 ?

Dieter
Dieter Koennecke

The rover 820 turbo uses a 4.2:1 final drive. (same as the elise 111s)

Will give better acceleration but limit your top speed. (thats if you actually hit the rev limit in fith)

Drew
Drew Spalding

Ouups just surfed a little with google and found this.
http://www.quaifeamerica.com/price/pl2002rb.pdf
Slight off topic, but may be of interest. Looks like a US company ?
Though search for elise and MGF inside the file ;)

Dieter Koennecke

Almost ;)

Quaife is a UK company based in Kent.
http://www.quaife.co.uk

Drew
Drew Spalding

Cheers !
:)
Dieter Koennecke

You want one of these
http://www.pratt-whitney.com/3a/html/products_f100.html
> Pratt & Whitney is a division of United Technologies Corporation,
>a $24.1 billion company that includes Otis elevators and escalators.

you might have to compremise on bootspace though
Will Munns

Very interesting! Given how hot these engines can get in a Rover 220 (My brother has one) I'd be a little concerned about the Engine bay temps in an MGF with this engine.

Sounds good though :) KV6 would sound even better though ;)

Regards

Steve.
Steve Childs

<<you might have to compromise on bootspace though>>

1/4 mile in 5.8 seconds reaching 273 mph,
think it would be worth losing that boot space???


http://www.draglist.com/stories/SOD%20May%202001/SOD-051001.htm

paul weatherill

it would be amuseing to see the look on peoples faces as you lit up the afterburner!

Will
Will Munns

Teehehehe.

Just reminded me of that guy who one the darwin award a few years ago for strapping a solid fuel booster to his pickup.

Leigh
Leigh

This thread was discussed between 05/06/2002 and 12/06/2002

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